Let Pythagoras go--A Controversy. Let ortography rule.

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--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Killian/O'Callaghan
Residence" <gottharddanae@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry I had to correct this. If you already don't like Pythagoras,
then you
> can meanwhile spell him correctly at least.
> Gotthard
>
> 2008/5/19 Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...>:
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com <tuning%40yahoogroups.com>,
"robert thomas
> >
> > martin" <robertthomasmartin@> wrote:
> >
> > > Try 0-126-252-378-663-789-915-1200cents if you like
> > > 663cents so much.
> >
> > That's a generator of 663, with a period of a pure octave. Where
are
> > the middle thirds? The combination of middle thirds with other
thirds
> > is the point; in the example I gave, 11/9 and 6/5. I believe
that I
> > was quite clear in saying that the 663 cents in itself isn't the
> > goal- in fact I'm certain that this was clear, because Ozan
> > immediately offered another harmony of the same kind and
principle, a
> > 16/13 combined with a 19/16. Another example would be, say, a 5/
4 on
> > top of a middle third, resulting in the appearance of an
> > "augmented" "fifth". Of course it's not necessarily a "fifth" at
all.
> >
> > -Cameron Bobro

I'm sure Pythagorass would share your passion for "ortography". :-)
Actually I like "pythagorean" intervals and don't know exactly what
the original poster meant with this thread title. Unchaining a major
third from the cycle of fifths? which I'd agree with of course.

In the meantime, but not meantone, here's another brief improv I just
did, have to score some pleasant tunes for a short film anyway, so by
the time I get the footage I should be able to pick the most
appropriate from a bunch of these little freeform tuning etudes.

http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3

working on a tuning that has, on paper, almost all wolves and dogs
for "fifths". Others might agree that it doesn't sound like that, and
that's because there aren't any real fifths, only stacked thirds of
different sizes.

-Cameron Bobro

Cameron Bobro wrote:

> In the meantime, but not meantone, here's another brief improv I just > did, have to score some pleasant tunes for a short film anyway, so by > the time I get the footage I should be able to pick the most > appropriate from a bunch of these little freeform tuning etudes. > > http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3
> > working on a tuning that has, on paper, almost all wolves and dogs > for "fifths". Others might agree that it doesn't sound like that, and > that's because there aren't any real fifths, only stacked thirds of > different sizes. I like this! What film is it intended for? Such a shame it finishes so soon.

Graham

--- Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...> wrote:

> http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3

> -Cameron Bobro

I like this! Very musical. What was the tuning?
Synth?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@...> wrote:
>
> Cameron Bobro wrote:
>
> > In the meantime, but not meantone, here's another brief improv I
just
> > did, have to score some pleasant tunes for a short film anyway,
so by
> > the time I get the footage I should be able to pick the most
> > appropriate from a bunch of these little freeform tuning etudes.
> >
> > http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3
> >
> > working on a tuning that has, on paper, almost all wolves and
dogs
> > for "fifths". Others might agree that it doesn't sound like that,
and
> > that's because there aren't any real fifths, only stacked thirds
of
> > different sizes.
>
> I like this! What film is it intended for? Such a shame it
> finishes so soon.
>
>
> Graham
>

Thanks! I've got to flesh out the tuning, then I can work on the
piece more. Kept hearing semitones that aren't there yet, haha. The
first chord is a 5/4 on top of a 17/14, so the pseudo-fifth is 722.4
cents wide. Another kind of "triad" that turns me on works out like
sarting with about a 5/3 split roughly in two- 9/7 on top of 13/10
for example.

The film is being done by a Slovenian artist, done stuff for her
before, installion music and a little acappella show at an opening.
Hm, oh and some melody for another short film, which I haven't seen
in final form come to think of it. Apparently the new short film is
going to be... people sleeping! They might be ribbing me on that one,
the other short was dramatic, "jilted lesbian lover".

-Cameron

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Killian/O'Callaghan Residence"
<gottharddanae@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry I had to correct this. If you already don't like Pythagoras,
then you
> can meanwhile spell him correctly at least.
> Gotthard
>
> 2008/5/19 Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...>:
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com <tuning%
40yahoogroups.com>, "robert thomas
> >
> > martin" <robertthomasmartin@> wrote:
> >
> > > Try 0-126-252-378-663-789-915-1200cents if you like
> > > 663cents so much.
> >
> > That's a generator of 663, with a period of a pure octave. Where
are
> > the middle thirds? The combination of middle thirds with other
thirds
> > is the point; in the example I gave, 11/9 and 6/5. I believe that
I
> > was quite clear in saying that the 663 cents in itself isn't the
> > goal- in fact I'm certain that this was clear, because Ozan
> > immediately offered another harmony of the same kind and
principle, a
> > 16/13 combined with a 19/16. Another example would be, say, a 5/4
on
> > top of a middle third, resulting in the appearance of an
> > "augmented" "fifth". Of course it's not necessarily a "fifth" at
all.
> >
> > -Cameron Bobro
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 55 Droop Street FOOTSCRAY 3011 VIC Australia. Tel (+61)(03)9689 3782
>
From Robert. contrAversy+ortHography=typo noted.

> > > http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3

I like it too! You've got a great knack for making cool sounds.

-Carl

yes it is to lovely to stop there!

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Graham Breed wrote:
>
> Cameron Bobro wrote:
>
> > In the meantime, but not meantone, here's another brief improv I just
> > did, have to score some pleasant tunes for a short film anyway, so by
> > the time I get the footage I should be able to pick the most
> > appropriate from a bunch of these little freeform tuning etudes.
> >
> > http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3 > <http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3>
> >
> > working on a tuning that has, on paper, almost all wolves and dogs
> > for "fifths". Others might agree that it doesn't sound like that, and
> > that's because there aren't any real fifths, only stacked thirds of
> > different sizes.
>
> I like this! What film is it intended for? Such a shame it
> finishes so soon.
>
> Graham
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...> wrote:
>
> > http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3
>
> > -Cameron Bobro
>
> I like this! Very musical. What was the tuning?
> Synth?
>

Hi Caleb, the synth is ZynAddSubFX, which loads Scala files and
keyboard mappings. The patch keeps evolving (the stock patches aren't
to my taste).

The tuning is:

0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
1: 255/224 224.398
2: 17/14 336.130 supraminor third
3: 85/64 491.269
4: 85/56 722.443
5: 765/448 926.353
6: 25/14 1003.802 middle minor seventh
7: 2/1 1200.000 octave

and it keeps insisting on this mode, with degrees 0 and 2 being
played some... 60 times? in 45 seconds or so. But the "tonic triad"
of 0-2-4 isn't really a tonic triad, as you can verify by sustaining
the chord and singing each of the intervals in a held tone. The root
is more ambiguous than the do-me-sol shape might indicate, and the
"sol" to my ears is clearly the smoothest tone to sustain against the
chord. So it's already driving toward the fifth tone here. Transposed
to this fifth tone the tuning is obviously quite "Just":

0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
1: 9/8 203.910 major whole tone
2: 20/17 281.358 septendecimal augmented second
3: 112/85 477.557
4: 3/2 701.955 perfect fifth
5: 8/5 813.686 minor sixth
6: 7/4 968.826 harmonic seventh
7: 2/1 1200.000 octave

The "shadow" third (in this transposition, being the 7th in the
original), also coincides with a point of maximum "harmonic entropy",
and has a kind of "otherness" without sounding false, to my ears.
This helps keep the whole thing from plunging to the original "sol"
immediately.

Looking at it from this transposition, the original tonic, which is
insisted upon, is on the fourth tone here, the "flat Fa". Modally
speaking it's like a reciting tone, and it floats because it's too
low to drive upward and the tone below is too far below, and too
"shadowy" in nature, to drag it down.

The two shadow tones, made apparent in this transposition, don't
stick out like sore thumbs or sound otherwise wonky because they are
Justly linked to the tuning as a whole, and they are in zones of
"entropy".

-Cameron Bobro

thanks, I'm printing this out for further study.
something about hardcopy steadies my nerves...

--- Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan
> <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> http://abumbrislumen.googlepages.com/Justice_MP3.mp3
> >
> > > -Cameron Bobro
> >
> > I like this! Very musical. What was the tuning?
> > Synth?
> >
>
> Hi Caleb, the synth is ZynAddSubFX, which loads
> Scala files and
> keyboard mappings. The patch keeps evolving (the
> stock patches aren't
> to my taste).
>
> The tuning is:
>
> 0: 1/1 0.000 unison,
> perfect prime
> 1: 255/224 224.398
> 2: 17/14 336.130 supraminor
> third
> 3: 85/64 491.269
> 4: 85/56 722.443
> 5: 765/448 926.353
> 6: 25/14 1003.802 middle minor
> seventh
> 7: 2/1 1200.000 octave
>
> and it keeps insisting on this mode, with degrees 0
> and 2 being
> played some... 60 times? in 45 seconds or so. But
> the "tonic triad"
> of 0-2-4 isn't really a tonic triad, as you can
> verify by sustaining
> the chord and singing each of the intervals in a
> held tone. The root
> is more ambiguous than the do-me-sol shape might
> indicate, and the
> "sol" to my ears is clearly the smoothest tone to
> sustain against the
> chord. So it's already driving toward the fifth tone
> here. Transposed
> to this fifth tone the tuning is obviously quite
> "Just":
>
> 0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect
> prime
> 1: 9/8 203.910 major whole
> tone
> 2: 20/17 281.358 septendecimal
> augmented second
> 3: 112/85 477.557
> 4: 3/2 701.955 perfect fifth
> 5: 8/5 813.686 minor sixth
> 6: 7/4 968.826 harmonic
> seventh
> 7: 2/1 1200.000 octave
>
> The "shadow" third (in this transposition, being the
> 7th in the
> original), also coincides with a point of maximum
> "harmonic entropy",
> and has a kind of "otherness" without sounding
> false, to my ears.
> This helps keep the whole thing from plunging to the
> original "sol"
> immediately.
>
> Looking at it from this transposition, the original
> tonic, which is
> insisted upon, is on the fourth tone here, the "flat
> Fa". Modally
> speaking it's like a reciting tone, and it floats
> because it's too
> low to drive upward and the tone below is too far
> below, and too
> "shadowy" in nature, to drag it down.
>
> The two shadow tones, made apparent in this
> transposition, don't
> stick out like sore thumbs or sound otherwise wonky
> because they are
> Justly linked to the tuning as a whole, and they are
> in zones of
> "entropy".
>
> -Cameron Bobro
>
>
>