New piece of music and new ideas about retuning

Hi again.

I see you keep passionately discussing different topics but I think you still have some time to spare and listen to music. Today, I'm sending two versions of my new piece. One of them was done in the way I usually do it -- I loaded the tuning to my keyboard and played in it from the very beginning. Wishing to have some intervals more "in tune", I decided to make one more version where the octaves would be stretched to about 1216 cents. Unfortunately, because my keyboard can only tune scales with no other period than 2/1, I had to use Scala and retune the piece by changing pitch-bend values. In the end, I was very VERY disappointed because the pitch-bend changes made some tones change their pitches even during sounding (the problem is that Scala thinks the pitch is no longer important to preserve as soon as you release the key but that is not true for sounds with longer release time). If anyone of you had an idea what other way I could use for retuning my music to avoid this problem, I would be really glad to know.

Okay, this is what Scala has done with it: http://download.yousendit.com/A19856720004B181

And this is the original version with pure octaves: http://download.yousendit.com/75046B02149ABC6D

Petr

Petr Pa��zek wrote:
> Hi again.
> > I see you keep passionately discussing different topics but I think you > still have some time to spare and listen to music. Today, I'm sending two > versions of my new piece. One of them was done in the way I usually do it -- > I loaded the tuning to my keyboard and played in it from the very beginning. > Wishing to have some intervals more "in tune", I decided to make one more > version where the octaves would be stretched to about 1216 cents. > Unfortunately, because my keyboard can only tune scales with no other period > than 2/1, I had to use Scala and retune the piece by changing pitch-bend > values. In the end, I was very VERY disappointed because the pitch-bend > changes made some tones change their pitches even during sounding (the > problem is that Scala thinks the pitch is no longer important to preserve as > soon as you release the key but that is not true for sounds with longer > release time). If anyone of you had an idea what other way I could use for > retuning my music to avoid this problem, I would be really glad to know.

The problem is inherent to MIDI pitch bends: all the notes in the same channel use the same pitch bend. So when Scala reuses a channel, there might have been a recently playing note with a different pitch bend. You could check your synth manual to see if there are any different modes for how a voice responds to pitch bend.

One thing you might try in a MIDI editor is uniformly stretch the duration of all notes (without changing the start time). Then do the Scala retuning, then change the note durations back. E.g., stretch all notes to 125%, then after retuning, reduce the durations to 80%.

1216 cents is pretty extreme. The TOP-RMS period for 11-limit superpelog is 1208.961340 cents, with a generator of 261.900821. But the contrast of the extra-wide octaves with the relatively smooth harmony is definitely an interesting effect.

Herman wrote:

> One thing you might try in a MIDI editor is uniformly stretch the
> duration of all notes (without changing the start time). Then do the
> Scala retuning, then change the note durations back. E.g., stretch all
> notes to 125%, then after retuning, reduce the durations to 80%.

That idea sounds great -- I mean, if I knew how to do that in the first place.

Petr

The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the output into
audio for each of the various tunings.
So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each of the
different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into audio,
save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to make
the final (multiple tuned) mix.

On 26 Apr 2008, at 10:34, Petr Pařízek wrote:

> Herman wrote:
>
>> One thing you might try in a MIDI editor is uniformly stretch the
>> duration of all notes (without changing the start time). Then do the
>> Scala retuning, then change the note durations back. E.g., stretch
>> all
>> notes to 125%, then after retuning, reduce the durations to 80%.
>
> That idea sounds great -- I mean, if I knew how to do that in the
> first
> place.
>
> Petr
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@lucytune.com

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Charles wrote:

> The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
> different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the output into
> audio for each of the various tunings.
> So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each of the
> different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into audio,
> save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to make
> the final (multiple tuned) mix.

Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have any experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding you correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the music for one octave of the entire systém and then these would be mixed down? Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would be only the 12 tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then C2 to B2 in the second track and so on -- is that it?

Petr

I have at last acquired a Macbook Pro with Logic Studio installed.
While I have much to learn before I can rewrite my compositions in
this eye-dazzling setup (so much for pesky windows!), I have already
found out how to microtune a project and hear the results with
realistic sample sounds and ambience effects. I hope to try out
Charles' suggestion for the multiple tuned mix in due course. But what
if octaves are tempered too?

Oz.

On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:39 PM, Petr Pařízek wrote:

> Charles wrote:
>
>
>
> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the output
> into
> > audio for each of the various tunings.
> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each of
> the
> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into audio,
> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to
> make
> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
>
>
>
> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have any
> experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding you
> correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the music for
> one octave of the entire systém and then these would be mixed down?
> Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would be only the 12
> tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then C2 to B2 in the
> second track and so on -- is that it?
>
>
>
> Petr
>
>
>

If you are using an octave ratio of other than 2.00000 that would be
the case.
If you count the number of different frequencies that you intend to use, divide by twelve and
round up to the next whole number above, that will give you the
minimum number of different tracks that you will need
each with its own tuning table.

Now multiply by the number of different instruments, and you get the
total number of tracks that you need for the whole project.

I, and most pop and jazz musos, use an octave ratio of 2, so in your
case you may need to assign a midi note number to each different
frequency.
How this works is explained in detail on this page.

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

I appreciate that it is a pretty lame way of doing things, but it does
work fairly easily, and provided you are using less than twelve
different pitches per octave (ratio 2.0000) , it works very well, as
it avoids all the problems of midi pitchbend, can be used "live", and
gives you access to all the effects, plug-ins etc.

Using this system it is easy to take a complete composition written in
midi 12edo, and microtune it; you can even take a complete productionmix (e.g. lso file) and just select a different tuning table, and it
will produce it immediately microtuned.

I have been encouraging the manufacturers/designers to adopt the midi
tuning dump for years, but it is yet to happen;-(

So this gives you a practical solution that can be applied with the
current standard music production technology.

Logic is really cheap nowadays compared to what it used to cost, and
has an amazing variety of effects and capabilities.

http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/

I am currently using the Soundtrack part of Logic to produce the
complete soundtrack for a 90 minute film.

On 26 Apr 2008, at 17:39, Petr Pařízek wrote:

>
> Charles wrote:
>
>
>
> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the output
> into
> > audio for each of the various tunings.
> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each of
> the
> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into audio,
> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to
> make
> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
>
>
>
> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have any
> experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding you
> correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the music for
> one octave of the entire systém and then these would be mixed down?
> Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would be only the 12
> tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then C2 to B2 in the
> second track and so on -- is that it?
>
>
>
> Petr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@lucytune.com

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Charles.
Do you find the new version much better, and is it still limited to 12 pitches in the octave?

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Charles Lucy wrote:
>
> If you are using an octave ratio of other than 2.00000 that would be > the case.
>
> If you count the number of different frequencies that you intend to > use, divide by twelve and > round up to the next whole number above, that will give you the > minimum number of different tracks that you will need > each with its own tuning table.
>
> Now multiply by the number of different instruments, and you get the > total number of tracks that you need for the whole project.
>
> I, and most pop and jazz musos, use an octave ratio of 2, so in your > case you may need to assign a midi note number to each different > frequency.
> How this works is explained in detail on this page.
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html > <http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html>
>
> I appreciate that it is a pretty lame way of doing things, but it does > work fairly easily, and provided you are using less than twelve > different pitches per octave (ratio 2.0000) , it works very well, as > it avoids all the problems of midi pitchbend, can be used "live", and > gives you access to all the effects, plug-ins etc.
>
> Using this system it is easy to take a complete composition written in > midi 12edo, and microtune it; you can even take a complete production > mix (e.g. lso file) and just select a different tuning table, and it > will produce it immediately microtuned.
>
> I have been encouraging the manufacturers/designers to adopt the midi > tuning dump for years, but it is yet to happen;-(
>
> So this gives you a practical solution that can be applied with the > current standard music production technology.
>
> Logic is really cheap nowadays compared to what it used to cost, and > has an amazing variety of effects and capabilities.
>
> http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/ > <http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/>
>
> I am currently using the Soundtrack part of Logic to produce the > complete soundtrack for a 90 minute film.
>
>
>
>
> On 26 Apr 2008, at 17:39, Petr Pařízek wrote:
>
>>
>> Charles wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12 >> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the output into >> > audio for each of the various tunings.
>> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each of the >> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into audio,
>> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to make >> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
>>
>> >>
>> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have any >> experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding you >> correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the music for >> one octave of the entire systém and then these would be mixed down? >> Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would be only the 12 >> tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then C2 to B2 in the >> second track and so on -- is that it?
>>
>> >>
>> Petr
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@lucytune.com <mailto:lucy@lucytune.com>
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com <http://www.lucytune.com>
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk <http://www.lullabies.co.uk>
>
>
>
>

Hi Oz;

I think I have answered your question in the posting in this group,
which I just sent in reply to Petr.

(I am reading and responding to messages in chronologic order)

If you are using any octave ratio other than 2, it takes a little more
work, but is possible ;-)

see here:

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

Check out the Logic and EXS user groups if you have any Logic
questions. Many of the experienced subscribers are professional
producers and very knowledgeable and helpful.

http://logic-users.org/

Enjoy Logic! The latest version is very user-friendly and easy to
learn compared to the earlier layouts and versions.

There are also quite a few free video tutorials posted on youtube e.g.:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hEfYauvZZaY&feature=related&fmt=18

To get the most out of the EXS sampler, and make your own sample
instruments easily, you will need to get this (Keymap) software:

http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html

to get really sophisticated and also microtune your audio files to
match, you will also need Melodyne:

http://www.celemony.com/cms/

I think they have a free demo and a standalone, which is much more
economical that the Pro deal, and works fine provided you have some
patience to learn how to use it, and only want to process one track at
a time.

(I have the full version, yet find the bridge inconvenient to use)

On 26 Apr 2008, at 18:29, Ozan Yarman wrote:

>
> I have at last acquired a Macbook Pro with Logic Studio installed.
> While I have much to learn before I can rewrite my compositions in
> this eye-dazzling setup (so much for pesky windows!), I have already
> found out how to microtune a project and hear the results with
> realistic sample sounds and ambience effects. I hope to try out
> Charles' suggestion for the multiple tuned mix in due course. But
> what if octaves are tempered too?
>
> Oz.
>
> On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:39 PM, Petr Pařízek wrote:
>
>> Charles wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
>> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the output
>> into
>> > audio for each of the various tunings.
>> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each
>> of the
>> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into audio,
>> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to
>> make
>> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have
>> any experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding
>> you correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the
>> music for one octave of the entire systém and then these would be
>> mixed down? Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would
>> be only the 12 tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then C2
>> to B2 in the second track and so on -- is that it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Petr
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@lucytune.com

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

I may have answered part of this question in my previous 2 postings.

Yes it still seems to be limited to 12 notes per octave.

I suggested to one of the Apple designers that they add microtuning
capability to GarageBand. He responded that they needed some
(encourage to upgrade) features in Logic and microtuning capability
was one of them.

But you never know with Apple they might do anything;-)

Upgrading to Logic Studio (8) is certainly worth it, (about 130 UKP)
as the GUI is much better, and there are dozens of extras which become
available which were not in Logic 7.

Also you no longer need to use a dongle, which frees up one USB.

The score in Logic is still pretty lame, compared to Sibelius ;-(

Look on the Logic site:

http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/

On 27 Apr 2008, at 00:40, Kraig Grady wrote:

> Charles.
> Do you find the new version much better, and is it still limited to
> 12 pitches in the octave?
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://
> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> Charles Lucy wrote:
> >
> > If you are using an octave ratio of other than 2.00000 that would be
> > the case.
> >
> > If you count the number of different frequencies that you intend to
> > use, divide by twelve and
> > round up to the next whole number above, that will give you the
> > minimum number of different tracks that you will need
> > each with its own tuning table.
> >
> > Now multiply by the number of different instruments, and you get the
> > total number of tracks that you need for the whole project.
> >
> > I, and most pop and jazz musos, use an octave ratio of 2, so in your
> > case you may need to assign a midi note number to each different
> > frequency.
> > How this works is explained in detail on this page.
> >
> > http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
> > <http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html>
> >
> > I appreciate that it is a pretty lame way of doing things, but it
> does
> > work fairly easily, and provided you are using less than twelve
> > different pitches per octave (ratio 2.0000) , it works very well, as
> > it avoids all the problems of midi pitchbend, can be used "live",
> and
> > gives you access to all the effects, plug-ins etc.
> >
> > Using this system it is easy to take a complete composition
> written in
> > midi 12edo, and microtune it; you can even take a complete
> production
> > mix (e.g. lso file) and just select a different tuning table, and it
> > will produce it immediately microtuned.
> >
> > I have been encouraging the manufacturers/designers to adopt the
> midi
> > tuning dump for years, but it is yet to happen;-(
> >
> > So this gives you a practical solution that can be applied with the
> > current standard music production technology.
> >
> > Logic is really cheap nowadays compared to what it used to cost, and
> > has an amazing variety of effects and capabilities.
> >
> > http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/
> > <http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/>
> >
> > I am currently using the Soundtrack part of Logic to produce the
> > complete soundtrack for a 90 minute film.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 26 Apr 2008, at 17:39, Petr Pařízek wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Charles wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
> >> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the
> output into
> >> > audio for each of the various tunings.
> >> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each
> of the
> >> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into
> audio,
> >> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio
> to make
> >> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have
> any
> >> experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding you
> >> correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the music
> for
> >> one octave of the entire systém and then these would be mixed
> down?
> >> Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would be only the
> 12
> >> tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then C2 to B2 in the
> >> second track and so on -- is that it?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Petr
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Charles Lucy
> > lucy@lucytune.com <mailto:lucy@lucytune.com>
> >
> > - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
> >
> > for information on LucyTuning go to:
> > http://www.lucytune.com <http://www.lucytune.com>
> >
> > For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> > http://www.lullabies.co.uk <http://www.lullabies.co.uk>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@lucytune.com

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Fractal Tune Smithy takes account of the possibility of note bending after the release - I'm not sure if SCALA does it the same way.

In FTS, when a new note is played which requires a new pitch bend, it chooses the channel that has been silent for longest to play it in. This eliminates the problem in all except very demanding pieces. You would need to have 15 notes sounding simultaneously all requiring different pitch bends or effects, or to have had them all in play recently (i.e. within the note release time) to still get glitches.

Could still happen in e.g. a fast harp glissando in a non octave scale - or an orchestral piece requiring many different pan positions or effects. However FTS can also tune from multiple in devices to mutliple out devices, which can take you beyond the 16 channel limitation of midi and eliminate the problem if you have enough output devices. Or you can record the individual tracks to audio separately then mix them.

For Windows only though unfortunately.

Robert

http://www.robertinventor.com

Robert, that sounds fantastic!
Where can I get the software and the documentation?

Petr

Hi Charles,

I visited your page and downloaded the lucytuned .scl files. However,
I cannot seem to locate the /Library/Logic/Tuning Tables/ folder. I
understand that this package is intended for Logic 7?

I will subscribe to the user groups as soon as possible. Also, I shall
look at the youtube tutorials. Thanks.

I do not think I need Redmatica and Melodyne at this stage. The
sampled instruments at my disposal seem more than enough and I shall
be working only with midi to audio.

Cordially,
Oz.

On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Charles Lucy wrote:

> Hi Oz;
>
> I think I have answered your question in the posting in this group,
> which I just sent in reply to Petr.
>
> (I am reading and responding to messages in chronologic order)
>
> If you are using any octave ratio other than 2, it takes a little > more work, but is possible ;-)
>
> see here:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>
> Check out the Logic and EXS user groups if you have any Logic
> questions. Many of the experienced subscribers are professional
> producers and very knowledgeable and helpful.
>
> http://logic-users.org/
>
> Enjoy Logic! The latest version is very user-friendly and easy to
> learn compared to the earlier layouts and versions.
>
> There are also quite a few free video tutorials posted on youtube
> e.g.:
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=hEfYauvZZaY&feature=related&fmt=18
>
> To get the most out of the EXS sampler, and make your own sample
> instruments easily, you will need to get this (Keymap) software:
>
> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>
> to get really sophisticated and also microtune your audio files to
> match, you will also need Melodyne:
>
> http://www.celemony.com/cms/
>
> I think they have a free demo and a standalone, which is much more
> economical that the Pro deal, and works fine provided you have some
> patience to learn how to use it, and only want to process one track
> at a time.
>
> (I have the full version, yet find the bridge inconvenient to use)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26 Apr 2008, at 18:29, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>
>>
>> I have at last acquired a Macbook Pro with Logic Studio installed.
>> While I have much to learn before I can rewrite my compositions in
>> this eye-dazzling setup (so much for pesky windows!), I have
>> already found out how to microtune a project and hear the results
>> with realistic sample sounds and ambience effects. I hope to try
>> out Charles' suggestion for the multiple tuned mix in due course.
>> But what if octaves are tempered too?
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:39 PM, Petr Pařízek wrote:
>>
>>> Charles wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
>>> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the >>> output into
>>> > audio for each of the various tunings.
>>> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each
>>> of the
>>> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into
>>> audio,
>>> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio to
>>> make
>>> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have
>>> any experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding
>>> you correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the
>>> music for one octave of the entire systém and then these would be
>>> mixed down? Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would
>>> be only the 12 tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then
>>> C2 to B2 in the second track and so on -- is that it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Petr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Charles Lucy
> lucy@lucytune.com
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>

Hi Oz;

I think the folder to put the tuning tables into is the same in Logic
Pro 8.
Just search on .scl in Spotlight, and you'll find a folder which
contains all the default tuning tables for Logic.
Just put the LucyTune files into the same folder.

On my system (MacBook Pro, OSX 10.5.2 (Leopard), Logic 8) the folder
is called Tuning Tables and is in the root/Library/Application
Support/ Logic/ Tuning Tables/ folder.
Make sure that you are searching in the root, as opposed to the user
folders.

You may need to enter your master password to enable you to write the
files into that folder.

On 27 Apr 2008, at 19:48, Ozan Yarman wrote:

>
> Hi Charles,
>
> I visited your page and downloaded the lucytuned .scl files.
> However, I cannot seem to locate the /Library/Logic/Tuning Tables/
> folder. I understand that this package is intended for Logic 7?
>
> I will subscribe to the user groups as soon as possible. Also, I
> shall look at the youtube tutorials. Thanks.
>
> I do not think I need Redmatica and Melodyne at this stage. The
> sampled instruments at my disposal seem more than enough and I shall
> be working only with midi to audio.
>
> Cordially,
> Oz.
>
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>
>> Hi Oz;
>>
>> I think I have answered your question in the posting in this
>> group, which I just sent in reply to Petr.
>>
>> (I am reading and responding to messages in chronologic order)
>>
>> If you are using any octave ratio other than 2, it takes a little
>> more work, but is possible ;-)
>>
>> see here:
>>
>> http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html
>>
>> Check out the Logic and EXS user groups if you have any Logic
>> questions. Many of the experienced subscribers are professional
>> producers and very knowledgeable and helpful.
>>
>> http://logic-users.org/
>>
>> Enjoy Logic! The latest version is very user-friendly and easy to
>> learn compared to the earlier layouts and versions.
>>
>> There are also quite a few free video tutorials posted on youtube
>> e.g.:
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=hEfYauvZZaY&feature=related&fmt=18
>>
>> To get the most out of the EXS sampler, and make your own sample
>> instruments easily, you will need to get this (Keymap) software:
>>
>> http://www.redmatica.com/Redmatica/Welcome_to_Redmatica.html
>>
>> to get really sophisticated and also microtune your audio files to
>> match, you will also need Melodyne:
>>
>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/
>>
>> I think they have a free demo and a standalone, which is much more
>> economical that the Pro deal, and works fine provided you have some
>> patience to learn how to use it, and only want to process one track
>> at a time.
>>
>> (I have the full version, yet find the bridge inconvenient to use)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 Apr 2008, at 18:29, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have at last acquired a Macbook Pro with Logic Studio installed.
>>> While I have much to learn before I can rewrite my compositions in
>>> this eye-dazzling setup (so much for pesky windows!), I have
>>> already found out how to microtune a project and hear the results
>>> with realistic sample sounds and ambience effects. I hope to try
>>> out Charles' suggestion for the multiple tuned mix in due course.
>>> But what if octaves are tempered too?
>>>
>>> Oz.
>>>
>>> On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:39 PM, Petr Pařízek wrote:
>>>
>>>> Charles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > The other way to do it is to use Logic/CuBase or similar with 12
>>>> > different +/- cent adjusted notes per octave, and turn the
>>>> output into
>>>> > audio for each of the various tunings.
>>>> > So you make a separate midi track containing the notes for each
>>>> of the
>>>> > different tunings, set the tuning, turn (bounce) output into
>>>> audio,
>>>> > save the audio, and then play then all back together as audio
>>>> to make
>>>> > the final (multiple tuned) mix.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Charles, again, the idea sounds wonderful but I don’t have
>>>> any experience with Logic or CuBase at all. If I’m understanding
>>>> you correctly, do you mean that each track would hold just the
>>>> music for one octave of the entire systém and then these would be
>>>> mixed down? Or, to say it in 12-EDO terminology, that there would
>>>> be only the 12 tones from C1 to B1 used in the first track, then
>>>> C2 to B2 in the second track and so on -- is that it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Petr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Charles Lucy
>> lucy@lucytune.com
>>
>> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>>
>> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>> http://www.lucytune.com
>>
>> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@lucytune.com

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Got it! Thanks!

You also said that Logic Score isn't a match for Sibelius, which I have next to Finale. Should I transfer my old scores in Encore to either of these and work with the resulting midi file in Logic?

Oz.

On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:19 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:

> Hi Oz;
>
> I think the folder to put the tuning tables into is the same in > Logic Pro 8.
> Just search on .scl in Spotlight, and you'll find a folder which > contains all the default tuning tables for Logic.
> Just put the LucyTune files into the same folder.
>
> On my system (MacBook Pro, OSX 10.5.2 (Leopard), Logic 8) the > folder is called Tuning Tables and is in the root/Library/> Application Support/ Logic/ Tuning Tables/ folder.
> Make sure that you are searching in the root, as opposed to the user > folders.
>
> You may need to enter your master password to enable you to write > the files into that folder.
>
>
> On 27 Apr 2008, at 19:48, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> I visited your page and downloaded the lucytuned .scl files. >> However, I cannot seem to locate the /Library/Logic/Tuning Tables/ >> folder. I understand that this package is intended for Logic 7?
>>
>> I will subscribe to the user groups as soon as possible. Also, I >> shall look at the youtube tutorials. Thanks.
>>
>> I do not think I need Redmatica and Melodyne at this stage. The >> sampled instruments at my disposal seem more than enough and I >> shall be working only with midi to audio.
>>
>> Cordially,
>> Oz.
>>

You can get the Score to work in Logic, but I find it not as complete or as easy to use as Sibelius.
You can export the Logic files as midi and import them into Sibelius if you want them to look better than they do in Logic score.
You can of course also move the midi in the other direction to hear/play/mix your Sibelius-produced midifiles, and develop the effects, mix etc.

On 27 Apr 2008, at 20:32, Ozan Yarman wrote:

>
> Got it! Thanks!
>
> You also said that Logic Score isn't a match for Sibelius, which I > have next to Finale. Should I transfer my old scores in Encore to > either of these and work with the resulting midi file in Logic?
>
> Oz.
>
> On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:19 PM, Charles Lucy wrote:
>
>> Hi Oz;
>>
>> I think the folder to put the tuning tables into is the same in >> Logic Pro 8.
>> Just search on .scl in Spotlight, and you'll find a folder which >> contains all the default tuning tables for Logic.
>> Just put the LucyTune files into the same folder.
>>
>> On my system (MacBook Pro, OSX 10.5.2 (Leopard), Logic 8) the >> folder is called Tuning Tables and is in the root/Library/>> Application Support/ Logic/ Tuning Tables/ folder.
>> Make sure that you are searching in the root, as opposed to the >> user folders.
>>
>> You may need to enter your master password to enable you to write >> the files into that folder.
>>
>>
>> On 27 Apr 2008, at 19:48, Ozan Yarman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Charles,
>>>
>>> I visited your page and downloaded the lucytuned .scl files. >>> However, I cannot seem to locate the /Library/Logic/Tuning Tables/ >>> folder. I understand that this package is intended for Logic 7?
>>>
>>> I will subscribe to the user groups as soon as possible. Also, I >>> shall look at the youtube tutorials. Thanks.
>>>
>>> I do not think I need Redmatica and Melodyne at this stage. The >>> sampled instruments at my disposal seem more than enough and I >>> shall be working only with midi to audio.
>>>
>>> Cordially,
>>> Oz.
>>>
>
>
>
Charles Lucy
lucy@lucytune.com

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Hi Petr

Sorry for the delay in replying. I don't read this forum as often as I used to (working hard on the programming and web site :-) ).

You can download the program from
http://www.robertinventor.com/software/tunesmithy/fts_download.htm

When you install it, look in the Tune Smithy 3 Tasks folder on your desktop to find the task appropriate for what you want to do.

Also - many of the windows have More / Less buttons. Click the >> More button for more controls / options or the << button for a simpler more compact window.

The documentation is installed with the program. There's F1 help for most of the windows - shows up in your browser (web page format). There's also individual help for many of the controls in the windows. When you hover the mouse over a contorl - if you see a tool tip, and the tip ends with "..." then there's extra help which you can show using Shift + F1.

The documentation however lags a bit behind the program as I released it first and plan to update the help later. The tool tip help is the most up to date but still incomplete especially for many of the newer options in the program. The help also has got rather extensive and needs a radical re-organisation to make it easier to find what you want on a specific topic. Again I plan to deal with that later.

So if you can't find out how to do something from the help - it may be there and hard to find, or I may not have documented it yet. So - be sure to ask!

If you have any questions then ask me - quickest to contact me directly at
support@robertinventor.com

Thanks,

Robert

http://www.robertinventor.com

> Robert, that sounds fantastic!
> Where can I get the software and the documentation?