error on wikipedia 41-et page

Hello all,

I was happy to see just now that there is finally once again
one single link to my tuning-theory work in Wikipedia.
It's listed as a reference at the bottom of the 41-et page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41_equal_temperament

However, there is an incorrect statement in the first
paragraph:

"This tuning is the smallest equal temperament with a
closer match to the perfect fifth than the standard
12 equal temperament."

And there are two references listed right after that statement.

As can be seen from my webpage:

http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/schoenberg/harm/monzo-neumann.htm

29-edo actually is a smaller equal-temperament than 41-edo,
which also offers a better approximation than 12-edo to
the 3:2 perfect-5th.

It would be nice if someone would fix the Wikipedia page.

I will no longer touch any Wikipedia page that says
anything about tuning, lest the "editors" again remove
my work as "oft-repeated spam".

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:44 PM, monz <joemonz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> However, there is an incorrect statement in the first
> paragraph:
>
> "This tuning is the smallest equal temperament with a
> closer match to the perfect fifth than the standard
> 12 equal temperament."

Fixed.

> I will no longer touch any Wikipedia page that says
> anything about tuning, lest the "editors" again remove
> my work as "oft-repeated spam".

So... you won't even correct an error anonymously? That seems like a
pretty ridiculous overreaction to me. Also, I have no idea what the
scare quotes around "editors" are supposed to mean. Anyone can be an
editor, so editors have no authority. Perhaps you meant
"administrators", but even we don't have much authority.

BTW, one of the references for the false statement (
http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/Music/12Tone.htm ) also says

"Some Indonesian music actually uses a 31-tone equal-tempered scale."

Does anyone have any idea what this refers to? Is it completely
meaningless, or is there something behind it? It couldn't possibly be
true... could it?

Keenan

Hi Keenan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:44 PM, monz <joemonz@...> wrote:
> > However, there is an incorrect statement in the first
> > paragraph:
> >
> > "This tuning is the smallest equal temperament with a
> > closer match to the perfect fifth than the standard
> > 12 equal temperament."
>
> Fixed.

Thanks.

> > I will no longer touch any Wikipedia page that says
> > anything about tuning, lest the "editors" again remove
> > my work as "oft-repeated spam".
>
> So... you won't even correct an error anonymously?
> That seems like a pretty ridiculous overreaction to me.

Well, not to me. These days, i always sign in whenever
i edit a (non-tuning) Wikipedia page. But in the past,
when i inadvertently did an edit without signing in,
if i happened to include any reference to my webpages,
it was tracked anyway. So now, even if i edit anonymously,
Wikipedia still knows that my ISP address is the one that's
connected to adding links to tonalsoft.com. So i just don't
bother anymore.

Of course i think it would be nice to have external links
on Wikipedia pages about tuning which point to my own website,
if only because Wikipedia readers could then get a lot
more relevant information from my webpages. But i certainly
will not add them.

And thanks (he said sarcastically) to Carl Lumma for removing
the link to my website that *was* on the Wikipedia 41-et page.
What's up with that? 41-edo is certainly a member of the
miracle family of temperaments, and that link pointed to my
page about miracle ... and *i* didn't add it to Wikipedia,
someone else did.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:

> <snip> Also, I have no idea what the
> scare quotes around "editors" are supposed to mean. Anyone
> can be an editor, so editors have no authority. Perhaps
> you meant "administrators", but even we don't have much
> authority.

Well, whatever title "wknight94" is supposed to have,
i was mainly referring to him/her, because that's the
person who deleted every single mention of me, my work,
and every external link to any of my Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
webpages, because it was deemed by him/her to be
"oft-repeated spam".

I admit that i added several links to my own webpages,
because i thought they would be useful to people who read
the Wikipedia pages. But in fact, a lot of the external
links to my webpages had been added by other people.
And now every one of them is gone ... and so is the one
that was on the 41-et page.

So, i'm pissed off about all of that, and i will not
be adding anything to any Wikipedia pages about tuning.
I'll save my Wikipedia additions for stuff like bicycles
and other things i know about, but which are not on my
website.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

monz wrote:
> Hello all,
> > > I was happy to see just now that there is finally once again
> one single link to my tuning-theory work in Wikipedia.
> It's listed as a reference at the bottom of the 41-et page:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41_equal_temperament

Seeing as you happened to mention it, I checked the reference.com mirror. I noticed:

The 41-equal page links to miracle and schismatic temperament but not magic, although the optimal magics are the closest of the three to 41-equal. Well, okay, maybe magic isn't such a big deal as to get a link in that direction, but...

There is a Magic Temperament page! But it doesn't mention the 7-prime limit. How come? The major virtue of magic is that it works well in the 9-limit. And two generators give you a 9:7 so that's hard to ignore.

Graham

"A shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot"

That's the deal, Joe Monzo.

Write a book, get it published, have it in libraries, have some
professors bicker about it a bit, and your wiki-problems will go
away.

The tuning articles on Wikipedia are loaded with terms and
interpretations of terms which are to be found in this particular
virtual community- and found, as far as I have been able to
determine, nowhere else.

Personally, I think that's funny and have to give a thumbs-up on
the sheer bravura. Whole religions get rolling with one character
making some brazen statement and sticking to it. Just remember that
others- say, universities- have armies and navies, carrots and sticks
(from salaries to (literal) armed men) to assist them in
selling their dialects as languages. You do not.

These are not value judgements.

-Cameron Bobro

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@>
wrote:
>
> > <snip> Also, I have no idea what the
> > scare quotes around "editors" are supposed to mean. Anyone
> > can be an editor, so editors have no authority. Perhaps
> > you meant "administrators", but even we don't have much
> > authority.
>
>
> Well, whatever title "wknight94" is supposed to have,
> i was mainly referring to him/her, because that's the
> person who deleted every single mention of me, my work,
> and every external link to any of my Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
> webpages, because it was deemed by him/her to be
> "oft-repeated spam".
>
> I admit that i added several links to my own webpages,
> because i thought they would be useful to people who read
> the Wikipedia pages. But in fact, a lot of the external
> links to my webpages had been added by other people.
> And now every one of them is gone ... and so is the one
> that was on the 41-et page.
>
> So, i'm pissed off about all of that, and i will not
> be adding anything to any Wikipedia pages about tuning.
> I'll save my Wikipedia additions for stuff like bicycles
> and other things i know about, but which are not on my
> website.
>
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>

Hi Cameron,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Cameron Bobro" <misterbobro@...> wrote:
>
> "A shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot"
>
> That's the deal, Joe Monzo.
>
> Write a book, get it published, have it in libraries, have some
> professors bicker about it a bit, and your wiki-problems will go
> away.

Actually, i don't have any wiki-problems. My attitude is
"fuck Wikipedia, i have my own Encyclopedia". But what
really pisses me off is that most of the Wikipedia articles
on tuning will inevitably plagarize my own work, and because
references to my pages used to be in Wikipedia but now
have been deleted, and i can't put them back in myself
without risk of being deleted again, it's difficult for me
to police the Wiki pages to remove the stuff that's
been pasted verbatim from my own work. I'd much prefer
to not remove it and instead just include citations, but
of course i can't do that, someone else has to.

Anyway, your advice is good, so thanks for that.

Actually i've reached the point in my life where it's
necessary for me to start publishing my work in some
way that i can earn some income from it, anyway.
No more giving it all away for free.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
> > "A shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot"
> >
> > That's the deal, Joe Monzo.
> >
> > Write a book, get it published, have it in libraries, have some
> > professors bicker about it a bit, and your wiki-problems will go
> > away.
>
> Actually, i don't have any wiki-problems. My attitude is
> "fuck Wikipedia, i have my own Encyclopedia".

The one you built by copying and pasting messages from
these lists?

> But what
> really pisses me off is that most of the Wikipedia articles
> on tuning will inevitably plagarize my own work,

I'd love to see examples of this.

> and because
> references to my pages used to be in Wikipedia but now
> have been deleted, and i can't put them back in myself
> without risk of being deleted again, it's difficult for me
> to police the Wiki pages to remove the stuff that's
> been pasted verbatim from my own work.

If there are any legitimate examples of plagiarism of
your stuff on Wikipedia, I'll remove them or cite them
immediately, your choice. And I'm sure we'll have no
problem keeping them off or cited.

-Carl

Hi Carl,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@> wrote:
> > > "A shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot"
> > >
> > > That's the deal, Joe Monzo.
> > >
> > > Write a book, get it published, have it in libraries, have some
> > > professors bicker about it a bit, and your wiki-problems will go
> > > away.
> >
> > Actually, i don't have any wiki-problems. My attitude is
> > "fuck Wikipedia, i have my own Encyclopedia".
>
> The one you built by copying and pasting messages from
> these lists?

Yes, that's the one. :)

Actually, it originally was about 30% my own work
and about 70% definitions from John Chalmers's glossary,
which he donated to my cause. I started incorporating
citations from these lists as it grew from a Dictionary
into a real Encyclopedia.

And please note that in my Encyclopedia, every single
quote from the tuning lists is cited with author name,
list name, message number, date and time (PST), and a
link to the archived message.

> > But what
> > really pisses me off is that most of the Wikipedia articles
> > on tuning will inevitably plagarize my own work,
>
> I'd love to see examples of this.

I'll compile them when i have time to go thru the
Wikipedia pages and find them. It's also possible that
the examples i came across in the past have been changed
by now, but i'm quite sure that there are still at least
a few.

> > and because
> > references to my pages used to be in Wikipedia but now
> > have been deleted, and i can't put them back in myself
> > without risk of being deleted again, it's difficult for me
> > to police the Wiki pages to remove the stuff that's
> > been pasted verbatim from my own work.
>
> If there are any legitimate examples of plagiarism of
> your stuff on Wikipedia, I'll remove them or cite them
> immediately, your choice. And I'm sure we'll have no
> problem keeping them off or cited.

Thanks, i appreciate your willingness to do that.
I'd certainly much rather leave quotes from my work
in Wikipedia (with the proper citations, of course),
than have them deleted.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

> I'll compile them when i have time to go thru the
> Wikipedia pages and find them. It's also possible that
> the examples i came across in the past have been changed
> by now, but i'm quite sure that there are still at least
> a few.

I'm sure Keenan would be happy to help here, too.
Just post here, or let me know somehow.

-Carl