interesting edit to wikipedia/microtonal music

Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Microtonal_music&curid=68276&diff=174386101&oldid=174056955

or

http://tinyurl.com/382cok

-Carl

The "anonymous user"'s IP is

208.65.189.154

Geo-Location Information
Country United States
State/Region OR
City Corvallis
Postal Code
Latitude 44.5577
Longitude -123.2978
Area Code 541

- Gabor

Geo-Location Map--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl
Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/
index.php?title=Microtonal_music&curid=68276&diff=174386101&oldid=174056955
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/382cok
>
> -Carl
>

Corvallis Oregon? Imagine that. I must say I'm shocked. -Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "alternativetuning"
<alternativetuning@...> wrote:
>
> The "anonymous user"'s IP is
>
> 208.65.189.154
>
> Geo-Location Information
> Country United States
> State/Region OR
> City Corvallis
> Postal Code
> Latitude 44.5577
> Longitude -123.2978
> Area Code 541
>
> - Gabor
>
>
> Geo-Location Map--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl
> Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> >
> > Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> > years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/382cok
> >
> > -Carl
> >
>

Can you tell us not 'in the know' folks the significance of Corvallis, OR?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Corvallis Oregon? Imagine that. I must say I'm shocked. -Carl
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "alternativetuning"
> <alternativetuning@> wrote:
> >
> > The "anonymous user"'s IP is
> >
> > 208.65.189.154
> >
> > Geo-Location Information
> > Country United States
> > State/Region OR
> > City Corvallis
> > Postal Code
> > Latitude 44.5577
> > Longitude -123.2978
> > Area Code 541
> >
> > - Gabor
> >
> >
> > Geo-Location Map--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl
> > Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> > > years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/382cok
> > >
> > > -Carl
> > >
> >
>

It is the dwellingplace of B. McLaren. -Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...>
> Can you tell us not 'in the know' folks the significance
> of Corvallis, OR?
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> >
> > Corvallis Oregon? Imagine that. I must say I'm shocked. -Carl
>

I thought so, but I wasn't sure.

-A.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> It is the dwellingplace of B. McLaren. -Carl
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@>
> > Can you tell us not 'in the know' folks the significance
> > of Corvallis, OR?
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Corvallis Oregon? Imagine that. I must say I'm shocked. -Carl
> >
>

doug leedy is also there btw completely tangential to the subject

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...> wrote:
>
>
> I thought so, but I wasn't sure.
>
> -A.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> >
> > It is the dwellingplace of B. McLaren. -Carl
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@>
> > > Can you tell us not 'in the know' folks the significance
> > > of Corvallis, OR?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Corvallis Oregon? Imagine that. I must say I'm shocked. -Carl
> > >
> >
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.
>

I guess it's official, now: the commissar has has forbidden me to
write microtonal music, and as the order appears to be retroactive as
well, I'll now erase all the microtonal pieces from my catalogue.

djw

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> wrote:
> Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.

Good lord, it isn't even hard to figure the usual suspect(s) in this.
How small, how very small of that someone.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "djwolf_frankfurt" <djwolf@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> >
> > Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> > years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.
> >
>
> I guess it's official, now: the commissar has has forbidden me to
> write microtonal music, and as the order appears to be retroactive as
> well, I'll now erase all the microtonal pieces from my catalogue.

Aside from the fact that he is apparantly unstable, what have you ever
done to him?

I'll say this--the thought that a Wikipedia mention could help or hurt
a person's career is giving to much power to Wikipedia.

actually what is interesting in all of this is that last i looked no
one had bothered to put dj wolf back up.
now what is worse or does everyone step over people who have fallen
on the street.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "djwolf_frankfurt" <djwolf@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anonymous user adds Jonathan Glasier and Bill Wesley (including
> > > years of birth) and deletes Daniel Wolf.
> > >
> >
> > I guess it's official, now: the commissar has has forbidden me to
> > write microtonal music, and as the order appears to be retroactive as
> > well, I'll now erase all the microtonal pieces from my catalogue.
>
> Aside from the fact that he is apparantly unstable, what have you ever
> done to him?
>
> I'll say this--the thought that a Wikipedia mention could help or hurt
> a person's career is giving to much power to Wikipedia.
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "banaphshu" <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> actually what is interesting in all of this is that last i looked no
> one had bothered to put dj wolf back up.
> now what is worse or does everyone step over people who have fallen
> on the street.

Thanks for the sentiment, Kraig, but I recently had a nice chat with
Doug Leedy, and we agreed that the category "microtonal composer" was
problematic for both of us. If it would help get more performances,
it might be useful and harmless. But I don't think it will lead to
more performance, and there is a downside risk in that "microtonal
music" is not really an aesthetic category, but rather a material
attribute, and this may lead to some misunderstandings. I am
intensely interested in tuning and in particular the ramification of
particular tunings on tonal musics, and have explicitly used tunings
other than 12tet since high school (my first quartet, in simple JI
scales, is now almost 30 years old!) but the real issues in my music
are shared with an experimental music community that does not overlap
perfectly with the tuning community (a point that I figured out a
long time ago, when Ivor Darreg insisted that I'd never be a composer
unless I kept a thematic catalog). That's also why I've generally
avoided placing my music in this forum -- a place like this is a
great one to share practical and theoretical information that may be
applied in a variety of environments, but the moment we go beyond
into real music, we can get lost in endless and potentially hurtful
aesthetic judgements. Moreover, there is the fact that, as much as
I'd like everything I write to explore pitches in a sensitive way, I
write music for at least part of my living, and I do take commissions
that are in 12tet or, at least, unexplicit or ambiguous about
intonation, so I guess I'm apostate there. (Leedy simply said that he
wrote in JI and meantone and didn't want to be considered microtonal).

As far as Wikipedia is concerned, it would probably be better to
simply create a category of "musicians who explicitly use tunings
other than 12-tet". This focuses on a broadly shared material
concern rather than creating a non-existant aesthetic category, and
gets us out of any existing or potential debates about the definition
of microtonal (i.e. does it have to be smaller than...?; are
macrotonal scales included? etc.)

But as long as we're talking about microtones, I have one question
that I've asked here several times and have never had a response to --
is there any living traditional repertoire using classical enharmonic
intervals as scale steps? The apparent disappearance of the Greek
enharmonic is one of the greatest mysteries in music history.

Daniel-

I appreciate this post...not only is there a wealth of sensible and
encouraging sentiment, there is a healthy sanity (e.g. the acceptance
of 12-eq commissions, etc)

Interesting comment about Leedy saying 'JI and meantone'...sort of my
approach...although I don't want to be called a 'microtonal composer',
I certainly celebrate pitch variety, and let people know that,---and,
as misunderstood as the term 'microtonal' is, it might be the most
understood by the lay public of all the terms available, and I
hesitate to change the name of MidwestMicrofest!

Best,
Aaron.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "djwolf_frankfurt" <djwolf@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "banaphshu" <kraiggrady@> wrote:
> >
> > actually what is interesting in all of this is that last i looked no
> > one had bothered to put dj wolf back up.
> > now what is worse or does everyone step over people who have fallen
> > on the street.
>
>
> Thanks for the sentiment, Kraig, but I recently had a nice chat with
> Doug Leedy, and we agreed that the category "microtonal composer" was
> problematic for both of us. If it would help get more performances,
> it might be useful and harmless. But I don't think it will lead to
> more performance, and there is a downside risk in that "microtonal
> music" is not really an aesthetic category, but rather a material
> attribute, and this may lead to some misunderstandings. I am
> intensely interested in tuning and in particular the ramification of
> particular tunings on tonal musics, and have explicitly used tunings
> other than 12tet since high school (my first quartet, in simple JI
> scales, is now almost 30 years old!) but the real issues in my music
> are shared with an experimental music community that does not overlap
> perfectly with the tuning community (a point that I figured out a
> long time ago, when Ivor Darreg insisted that I'd never be a composer
> unless I kept a thematic catalog). That's also why I've generally
> avoided placing my music in this forum -- a place like this is a
> great one to share practical and theoretical information that may be
> applied in a variety of environments, but the moment we go beyond
> into real music, we can get lost in endless and potentially hurtful
> aesthetic judgements. Moreover, there is the fact that, as much as
> I'd like everything I write to explore pitches in a sensitive way, I
> write music for at least part of my living, and I do take commissions
> that are in 12tet or, at least, unexplicit or ambiguous about
> intonation, so I guess I'm apostate there. (Leedy simply said that he
> wrote in JI and meantone and didn't want to be considered microtonal).
>
> As far as Wikipedia is concerned, it would probably be better to
> simply create a category of "musicians who explicitly use tunings
> other than 12-tet". This focuses on a broadly shared material
> concern rather than creating a non-existant aesthetic category, and
> gets us out of any existing or potential debates about the definition
> of microtonal (i.e. does it have to be smaller than...?; are
> macrotonal scales included? etc.)
>
> But as long as we're talking about microtones, I have one question
> that I've asked here several times and have never had a response to --
> is there any living traditional repertoire using classical enharmonic
> intervals as scale steps? The apparent disappearance of the Greek
> enharmonic is one of the greatest mysteries in music history.
>

I will admit i find the term more and more troublesome as time goes on.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "djwolf_frankfurt" <djwolf@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the sentiment, Kraig, but I recently had a nice chat with
> Doug Leedy, and we agreed that the category "microtonal composer" was
> problematic for both of us.