Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Polyphony question

Hi Justin,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "justinasia" <justinasia@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys
> Sorry to ask such a basic question, but I am just now
> listening to Jimi Hendrix, playing his nice electric guitar
> and really going off on it, while the bass is giving a
> nice bass melody. Is this combination called "polyphony"?
> Or something else? (I'm still trying to get to grips on
> what "polyphony" is.

Yes, that's a good example of polyphony.

The Greek-to-English equivalents are:

"Monophony" = one voice
"Polyphony" = many voices
"Homophony" = same voices
"Heterophony" = different voices

Monophony is where the music is either literally
one solo part, or all performers play/sing
exactly the same part, or perhaps in pitch-classes
the same but in various octaves. Examples:
Gregorian chant; a bunch of amateurs singing
Happy Birthday.

Polyphony is where each part plays its own
distinct melody. Examples: Renaissance vocal
music; Bach; late Mahler (5th-10th Symphonies).

Homophony is characterized by a distinct
melody, and usually a distinct baseline,
along with inner parts, with the rhythm
of all the parts more or less the same.
Examples: much Beethoven; pop music; jazz.

http://www.reference.com/search?q=homophony

Heterophony is a style where all the performers
play/sing their own variation on the same
melodic line. It often features polytempo:
performers playing basically the same melody
but each using their own tempo. Examples:
gamelan; traditional Thai music. (I wish i
could find some audio examples of the
Outer Hebrides Gaelic Psalmody mentioned
on the page below!)

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Heterophony

Of course in any given composition, styles
may overlap and fade in and out. For example,
jazz can be thought of as primarily homophonic,
but it does in fact have at least 3 parts
which may be totally independent rhythmically:
a tune, the chord background, and a bass line.
So therefore it is also polyphonic. The homophonic
aspect survives "in the background" because
on the accented beats the 3 parts are supposed
to agree harmonically, forming chords.

And BTW, since you're listening to Hendrix,
take note of what fantastic control he had
over the intonation of his playing. Between
the fast riffs along the frets, on nearly
every sustained note he bends the string and
the pitch upward ... and its always *just*
the right amount, but always a different amount.

-monz

email: joemonz(AT)yahoo.com
http://tonalsoft.com/support/tonescape/help/tonescape-overview.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

🔗Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>

Monz,

Thanks for the concise music lesson,
from the four "-phony's,

Mono-
Poly-
Homo-
Hetero-

to
Jazz baselines,

to
Jimi,

Mr. Hendrix,

the guy who just loved to play,

and left us behind way too soon.

Mark

--- monz <monz@tonalsoft.com> wrote:

> Hi Justin,
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "justinasia"
> <justinasia@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys
> > Sorry to ask such a basic question, but I am just
> now
> > listening to Jimi Hendrix, playing his nice
> electric guitar
> > and really going off on it, while the bass is
> giving a
> > nice bass melody. Is this combination called
> "polyphony"?
> > Or something else? (I'm still trying to get to
> grips on
> > what "polyphony" is.
>
>
> Yes, that's a good example of polyphony.
>
> The Greek-to-English equivalents are:
>
> "Monophony" = one voice
> "Polyphony" = many voices
> "Homophony" = same voices
> "Heterophony" = different voices
>
> Monophony is where the music is either literally
> one solo part, or all performers play/sing
> exactly the same part, or perhaps in pitch-classes
> the same but in various octaves. Examples:
> Gregorian chant; a bunch of amateurs singing
> Happy Birthday.
>
> Polyphony is where each part plays its own
> distinct melody. Examples: Renaissance vocal
> music; Bach; late Mahler (5th-10th Symphonies).
>
> Homophony is characterized by a distinct
> melody, and usually a distinct baseline,
> along with inner parts, with the rhythm
> of all the parts more or less the same.
> Examples: much Beethoven; pop music; jazz.
>
> http://www.reference.com/search?q=homophony
>
>
> Heterophony is a style where all the performers
> play/sing their own variation on the same
> melodic line. It often features polytempo:
> performers playing basically the same melody
> but each using their own tempo. Examples:
> gamelan; traditional Thai music. (I wish i
> could find some audio examples of the
> Outer Hebrides Gaelic Psalmody mentioned
> on the page below!)
>
> http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Heterophony
>
>
> Of course in any given composition, styles
> may overlap and fade in and out. For example,
> jazz can be thought of as primarily homophonic,
> but it does in fact have at least 3 parts
> which may be totally independent rhythmically:
> a tune, the chord background, and a bass line.
> So therefore it is also polyphonic. The homophonic
> aspect survives "in the background" because
> on the accented beats the 3 parts are supposed
> to agree harmonically, forming chords.
>
>
> And BTW, since you're listening to Hendrix,
> take note of what fantastic control he had
> over the intonation of his playing. Between
> the fast riffs along the frets, on nearly
> every sustained note he bends the string and
> the pitch upward ... and its always *just*
> the right amount, but always a different amount.
>
>
> -monz
>
> email: joemonz(AT)yahoo.com
>
http://tonalsoft.com/support/tonescape/help/tonescape-overview.aspx
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>
>
>
>
>

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🔗justinasia <justinasia@yahoo.com>

Hi Monz
Thanks for your elaborate reply! May I ask some questions below?

> Yes, that's a good example of polyphony.

Cool.

> The Greek-to-English equivalents are:
>
> "Monophony" = one voice
> "Polyphony" = many voices
> "Homophony" = same voices
> "Heterophony" = different voices
>
> Monophony [..]

Okay, that sounds simple.

> Polyphony is where each part plays its own
> distinct melody. Examples: Renaissance vocal
> music; Bach; late Mahler (5th-10th Symphonies).

Okay.

> Homophony is characterized by a distinct
> melody, and usually a distinct baseline,

How is that not polyphony already? I mean, if the melody and the
baseline are different melodies? Or should they be the same melody?
Like as if the baseline is just a simplified version of the more
complex "main" melody, ? (I.e. what distinguishes this from polyphony?
This refers also to our Jimi.)

> along with inner parts, with the rhythm
> of all the parts more or less the same.
> Examples: much Beethoven; pop music; jazz.

> Heterophony is a style where all the performers
> play/sing their own variation on the same
> melodic line.

What is the distinction between this and polyphony? Is it just just
the ornamentation (on the same melody) is different? How do we know if
it is the same enough to be heterophonic or different enough to be
polyphonic? (Roughly).

It often features polytempo:
> performers playing basically the same melody
> but each using their own tempo.

> And BTW, since you're listening to Hendrix,
> take note of what fantastic control he had
> over the intonation of his playing. Between
> the fast riffs along the frets, on nearly
> every sustained note he bends the string and
> the pitch upward ... and its always *just*
> the right amount, but always a different amount.

Very interesting.

Is it fine to post a little sample of music here on the list? If you
like you could say whether it is polyphonic.
Thanks!
Justin

🔗Klaus Schmirler <KSchmir@online.de>

justinasia schrieb:
> Hi Monz

>> Homophony is characterized by a distinct
>> melody, and usually a distinct baseline,
> > > > How is that not polyphony already? I mean, if the melody and the
> baseline are different melodies? Or should they be the same melody?
> Like as if the baseline is just a simplified version of the more
> complex "main" melody, ? (I.e. what distinguishes this from polyphony?
> This refers also to our Jimi.) Actually I was only going to ask what actual scales you use from the tuning in the other thread (My hunch being pentatonic because the note names sound Japanese, but the word that's supposed to mean "dark" is not in my [tiny] dictionary). Please answer in that other thread.

The main problem with the 4 -phonies is that they were coined for written music in a period when clearer distinctions were made - except for heterophony, which came much later and was invented to describe unwritten music, a performance practice rather than a species of counterpoint.

This might be what they are in order of complexity:

Monophony: Just a melody without accompaniment, delivered by one person alone or by a group that knows the melody well enough and is not interested in self-expression. A cantor, or a group of sports fans.

Heterophony is polyphony (!) that arises when a group of people sing the same melody, but are free to contribute their own embellishments individually. Say, someone likes an appoggiatura, another likes to exaggerate a leap, some like a strict tempo, some don't. To be heard on many anthropological recordings (from a time when the key question was, Where does polyphony come from, and heterophony was "invented" as the missing link), or Gyï¿½rgy Ligeti from the '70s onward (written down, in this case). Or theme statements in Albert Ayler's groups.

Polyphony and homophony are two contrapuntal styles, the latter often called "rhythmic unison" to please the plebs. They rarely occur separate from each other. In a mass, the Kyrie with its six words is more likely to be polyphonic, with imitations and independent, equally conspicuous voices. The Credo, which is a mouthful, will normally hurry through the text with one note per syllable in all the voices. The effect is rather like blocks of sound than a leading voice with accompaniment (and in this time, the leading voice would be the tenor - but if the composer was good, he'd make the other voices interesting, too). Hypothetically, a heterophonic rendition of a melody may turn out to be homophony - except that the heterophonic crowd would use lots of parallel fifths and octaves, or strings of sixths and thirds that go on too long to make it regular counterpoint (but good enough for William Billings and big band section writing).

Most music you are likely to hear falls outside the four -phonies. The term for that one isn't quite as newfangled as "heterophony", it's 300 years older and came into being when Monteverdi invented the opera. It's "monody": one melody, and the rest is accompaniment. You may still find that an accompaniment in pound notes is homophonic, or you may describe arpeggiated chords against the melody as a kind of formulaic polyphony, but that's really beside the point for this kind of music.

klaus