A 57-tone tuning based on the 38-tone minimal tuning for maqam music

Remember how we found the 38-tone scale:

In SCALA, type:

Equal 19

Copy 0 1

Move

14.24

Normalize

Merge

1

Now, proceed as follows:

Copy 0 1

Equal 19

move (1200/19 times 2)

Normalize

Merge

1

Voila!

Oz.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:

> Copy 0 1
>
> Equal 19
>
> move (1200/19 times 2)
>
> Normalize
>
> Merge
>
> 1
>
>
>
> Voila!

It sounds like you are saying move 19-edo by two steps of 19-edo and
merge with 19-edo. That would give 19-edo.

From what I read of Oz's description, I understand the following:

To me this tuning that Oz is attempting to define is most easily considered as steps of 1200/19 = 63.15789 cents.

One starting from 0 cents i.e. 0, 63.15789, 126.3158 etc.

i.e. regular common or "old" garden 19 edo.

plus a second set 19 steps of the same interval starting from 14.24 cents:

i.e. 14.24, (63.15789 + 14.24)= 77.39789; (14.24+126.3158) etc. ......

This will result in a tuning having 38 intervals per octave with the following ascending alternate interval pattern.

14.24, 48.91789,

If I have understood correctly this begins to look very similar to the pattern which is seen on the fretting of LucyTuned guitars?

see pictures and numbers here:

http://www.lucytune.com/guitars_and_frets/frets.html

i.e 19 very approximately equal steps as in 19 edo, which as you add more frets (i.e. beyond 19) generates a similar pattern which is offset by 14.37 cents (2L-3s) cents

see http://www.lucytune.com/new_to_lt/pitch_02.html

This pattern works very well on fretted instruments, as in practice if you are playing in a "flat" key you finger below the pair of close frets;

if in a "sharp" key you finger on the pair of frets.

I appreciate that this is another example of seeing the world only from where one is standing, yet my perspective ("insight?") may be helpful for others in visualising the "connectedness"

between some of the new diverse patterns which exploring tunaniks are discovering.

BTW if you have more than 38 frets per octave on your LucyTuned guitar, the 39th fret which you add begins a pattern of three "close frets"

which then begins to fill the "spaces' until you get a total of 19*3;

and the 58th fret begins to make a pattern of four close frets.

Continuing to add frets you eventually end up with "all frets and no board"; which after all is where you began i.e. "all board and no frets"

Sorry for rambling.

Charles Lucy lucy@lucytune.com

----- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -----

For information on LucyTuning go to: http://www.lucytune.com

LucyTuned Lullabies (from around the world):
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Skype user = lucytune

http://www.myspace.com/lucytuning

On 4 Nov 2007, at 20:21, Gene Ward Smith wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> > Copy 0 1
> >
> > Equal 19
> >
> > move (1200/19 times 2)
> >
> > Normalize
> >
> > Merge
> >
> > 1
> >
> >
> >
> > Voila!
>
> It sounds like you are saying move 19-edo by two steps of 19-edo and
> merge with 19-edo. That would give 19-edo.
>
>
>

Do not forget the third chain of 19-edo, which is 39 cents higher than the first and follows the pattern:

14.239 cents
24.459 cents
24.459 cents

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Lucy
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 05 Kasım 2007 Pazartesi 1:46
Subject: [tuning] Another "perspective" on A 57-tone tuning based on the 38-tone minimal tuning for maqam music

From what I read of Oz's description, I understand the following:

To me this tuning that Oz is attempting to define is most easily considered as steps of 1200/19 = 63.15789 cents.

One starting from 0 cents i.e. 0, 63.15789, 126.3158 etc.

i.e. regular common or "old" garden 19 edo.

plus a second set 19 steps of the same interval starting from 14.24 cents:

i.e. 14.24, (63.15789 + 14.24)= 77.39789; (14.24+126.3158) etc. ......

This will result in a tuning having 38 intervals per octave with the following ascending alternate interval pattern.

14.24, 48.91789,

If I have understood correctly this begins to look very similar to the pattern which is seen on the fretting of LucyTuned guitars?

see pictures and numbers here:

http://www.lucytune.com/guitars_and_frets/frets.html

i.e 19 very approximately equal steps as in 19 edo, which as you add more frets (i.e. beyond 19) generates a similar pattern which is offset by 14.37 cents (2L-3s) cents

see http://www.lucytune.com/new_to_lt/pitch_02.html

This pattern works very well on fretted instruments, as in practice if you are playing in a "flat" key you finger below the pair of close frets;

if in a "sharp" key you finger on the pair of frets.

I appreciate that this is another example of seeing the world only from where one is standing, yet my perspective ("insight?") may be helpful for others in visualising the "connectedness"

between some of the new diverse patterns which exploring tunaniks are discovering.

BTW if you have more than 38 frets per octave on your LucyTuned guitar, the 39th fret which you add begins a pattern of three "close frets"

which then begins to fill the "spaces' until you get a total of 19*3;

and the 58th fret begins to make a pattern of four close frets.

Continuing to add frets you eventually end up with "all frets and no board"; which after all is where you began i.e. "all board and no frets"

Sorry for rambling.

Charles Lucy lucy@lucytune.com

Thanks Oz;

I hadn't calculated the third one, as after calculating the second
nineteen; I suddenly recognised the pattern and started comparing the
results.
So the third group of 19 "frets" would continue the pattern as I have
speculated in my earlier posting, giving you 19 bunches of three closely-spaced frets, as I suggested would happen after 38 frets?

The practical problem that I envisage for fretted instruments will be
the difficulty of positioning your fingers sufficiently accurately
(at performance speed) to choose which of the the three in the bunch
to sound. It's fairly easy when there are only pairs of frets, as to
sound the lower note you can press down below the the pair or on the
pair for sharp keys, although to play the centre fret of the trio
will require extremely precise finger positioning, which could
inhibit performance speed.

It becomes a trade-off between accuracy and speed, which is why I
have only used 19 frets per octave on my favourite LucyTuned 12
string guitar, to make it to easier to play chords.

Charles Lucy lucy@lucytune.com

----- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -----

For information on LucyTuning go to: http://www.lucytune.com

LucyTuned Lullabies (from around the world):
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Skype user = lucytune

http://www.myspace.com/lucytuning

On 5 Nov 2007, at 04:54, Ozan Yarman wrote:

>
> Do not forget the third chain of 19-edo, which is 39 cents higher
> than the first and follows the pattern:
>
> 14.239 cents
> 24.459 cents
> 24.459 cents
>
> Oz.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charles Lucy
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 05 Kasım 2007 Pazartesi 1:46
> Subject: [tuning] Another "perspective" on A 57-tone tuning based
> on the 38-tone minimal tuning for maqam music
>
> From what I read of Oz's description, I understand the following:
>
> To me this tuning that Oz is attempting to define is most easily
> considered as steps of 1200/19 = 63.15789 cents.
>
> One starting from 0 cents i.e. 0, 63.15789, 126.3158 etc.
>
> i.e. regular common or "old" garden 19 edo.
>
> plus a second set 19 steps of the same interval starting from 14.24
> cents:
>
> i.e. 14.24, (63.15789 + 14.24)= 77.39789; (14.24+126.3158) etc. ......
>
>
> This will result in a tuning having 38 intervals per octave with
> the following ascending alternate interval pattern.
>
> 14.24, 48.91789,
>
> If I have understood correctly this begins to look very similar to
> the pattern which is seen on the fretting of LucyTuned guitars?
>
> see pictures and numbers here:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/guitars_and_frets/frets.html
>
> i.e 19 very approximately equal steps as in 19 edo, which as you
> add more frets (i.e. beyond 19) generates a similar pattern which
> is offset by 14.37 cents (2L-3s) cents
>
> see http://www.lucytune.com/new_to_lt/pitch_02.html
>
> This pattern works very well on fretted instruments, as in practice
> if you are playing in a "flat" key you finger below the pair of
> close frets;
>
> if in a "sharp" key you finger on the pair of frets.
>
> I appreciate that this is another example of seeing the world only
> from where one is standing, yet my perspective ("insight?") may be
> helpful for others in visualising the "connectedness"
>
> between some of the new diverse patterns which exploring tunaniks
> are discovering.
>
> BTW if you have more than 38 frets per octave on your LucyTuned
> guitar, the 39th fret which you add begins a pattern of three
> "close frets"
>
> which then begins to fill the "spaces' until you get a total of 19*3;
>
> and the 58th fret begins to make a pattern of four close frets.
>
> Continuing to add frets you eventually end up with "all frets and
> no board"; which after all is where you began i.e. "all board and
> no frets"
>
> Sorry for rambling.
>
>
> Charles Lucy lucy@lucytune.com
>
>
>