FW: [tuning] Enrique Moreno ... still using the extended tunings? + Pythagorean matters

Hi tony
Many thanks fro reply.
1-Yes , the base of persian theory is pythagorean ,but Farabi,ibn sina and others used other limits for neutral and semi augmentedintervals.
2- As there are many different methods to present persian intervallic structure due to each performer,it is possible to simulate them in 96-EDO.for example you can use 200. or 212.5 cent for M2.i can use:
0 137.5 200 287.5 337.5 387.5 500 537.5 587.5 700 787.5 837.5 887.5 987.5 1037.5 1187.5 1200.
I'm working on interval naming and accidentals to be uploded in my site.
3-As i define :Non-octave is any interval which is not octave.Non-octavic scale hasn't any octave.
1205. is a pseudo-octave but 1237.5 is a non-octavic interval.

Shaahin Mohajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web siteوب سايت شاهين مهاجري <http://240edo.googlepages.com/>

My farsi page in Harmonytalk صفحه اختصاصي در هارموني تاك <http://www.harmonytalk.com/mohajeri>

Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia شاهين مهاجري دردائره المعارف ويكي پديا <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaahin_mohajeri>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.A.Martin Salinas
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:15 AM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tuning] Enrique Moreno ... still using the extended tunings? + Pythagorean matters

Hi Shaahin,

Good to know that there are other people out there using the 96-EDO.

Your page looks very good and you are more than welcome to use
a link to any of my pages is fine for me. I have to check the pdf with the
diagrams for non-octal tunings in the 96-EDO (62.5cet/87.5cet...etc)
since I could not open it at all.

So I guess the 17 notes from persian music are originally pythagorean.
Pythagorean is a very useful system for the times there was no tuning
machines, but it would be interesting to know what subsets of the 96-EDO
do you use for Persian (classical?) music, and the notation too.

I have 96-EDO guitar and 96-EDO-bellophone exercises and a very short
piece, which I can try to load up on my page, when I get a bit of time.

I also have 96-EDO bellophone with ensemble but many videos badly
taken of the same performance which I have to edit when I get a chance.

Sorry to all for this delay! .... I would still send unedited work upon request
specially to all the contributors of this list.

Shame not to hear about Enrique Moreno on this list, he did open a door
to non-octal tunings and there is not even a page on the web for his compositions,
neither for his theoretical work with extended tunings.

Since I mentioned about pythagorean tunings, and there was a recent discussion
about 22 sruthis (and its influence to Hindustani classical music) I was wandering
if there are people on this list who play Carnatic classical music (as the counter part
of Hindustani), which seems to stick more to the roots of the origins of both musics
during the BC period of the Vedas, which it seems to be mostly developed through
the Vedas.

Sincerely,

Tony Salinas

On 2007/08/19, at 13:16, Mohajeri Shahin wrote:

Hi tony,how are u?

i know that you work with 96-EDO. and i think it is a good frame work for persian music as now , 24-EDO is used to describe ideal 17-degrees of persian music.i'm working on an interval naming formula for 96 and accidentals based on vaziri's 24-EDO sori and koron(http://240edo.googlepages.com/about24-edo <http://240edo.googlepages.com/about24-edo> )
i also added you as one working on 96-EDO in my page for 96-EDO.and also see your presentation of 96-EDO degrees in
Salinas notation for 96-EDO <http://www.tonysalinas.com/Conic_Bellophone_non-octal_diagrams.pdf>
do you have any music on internet for 96-EDO (not for Bellophones <http://danielthompson.blogspot.com/> )?
best wishes for you

Shaahin Mohajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web siteمهاجريوب سايت شاهين <http://240edo.googlepages.com/>

My farsi page in Harmonytalk صفحه اختصاصي در هارموني تاك <http://www.harmonytalk.com/mohajeri>

Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia دردائره المعارف ويكي پدياشاهين مهاجري <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaahin_mohajeri>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.A.Martin Salinas
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:06 PM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Enrique Moreno ... still using the extended tunings?

Apart from last 12 months, I have been absent from this list since
about the times ET was the terminology
for equal temperament and then we moved on into tET (tones equal
temperament).

In 1994 I met Enrique Moreno in Standford when I was doing myself
some work with brainwaves
and music at Biocontrol Systems there in Palo Alto. Enrique
introduced me to the Equal Divisions of other intervals
in the harmonic series. I did not keep in touch but I wonder if
anybody kept in touch with Enrique and knows
if he has been working more on this area???

I believe that his work used the following ratios:

R = n^(1/x)

where n is 2, 3, 5, 6 ... (I think he did not mention the double
octave, ratio 4)

x are the divisions of the ratio

His recordings with a soprano from Standford reminded me of
Carrillo's vocal works.

Tony Salinas

Hi Shaahin!

On this page

http://240edo.tripod.com/different_models_of_equal_divisions.html

you defined

EDRNO as equal divisions of rational non-octave (e.g. 60-ED81/40)
EDRI as equal divisions of a rational interval (e.g. 60-ED4/3)

4/3 and 81/40 are both rational and both non-octave.

I am trying to catch up with the terminology of this list, and before they used to
cal non-octave to any interval different to the octave, but I think you mean
to say any interval close to an octave. Is that right? If so how many cents above
or below the octave.

You also mentioned about pseudo-octave, do you mean stretched octave like
if african xylophones, indonesian metallophones, and pianos?

I hope you do not mind more questions once we clarify your diagram in:

http://240edo.tripod.com/different_models_of_equal_divisions.html

Cheers

On 2007/08/22, at 20:34, Mohajeri Shahin wrote:

> Shaahin