Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Enrique Moreno ... still using the extended tunings?

Hi tony,how are u?

i know that you work with 96-EDO. and i think it is a good frame work for persian music as now , 24-EDO is used to describe ideal 17-degrees of persian music.i'm working on an interval naming formula for 96 and accidentals based on vaziri's 24-EDO sori and koron( http://240edo.googlepages.com/about24-edo)
i also added you as one working on 96-EDO in my page for 96-EDO.and also see your presentation of 96-EDO degrees in
Salinas notation for 96-EDO <http://www.tonysalinas.com/Conic_Bellophone_non-octal_diagrams.pdf>
do you have any music on internet for 96-EDO (not for Bellophones <http://danielthompson.blogspot.com/> )?
best wishes for you

Shaahin Mohajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web site?? ???? ????? ?????? <http://240edo.googlepages.com/>

My farsi page in Harmonytalk ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? <http://www.harmonytalk.com/mohajeri>

Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaahin_mohajeri>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.A.Martin Salinas
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:06 PM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Enrique Moreno ... still using the extended tunings?

Apart from last 12 months, I have been absent from this list since
about the times ET was the terminology
for equal temperament and then we moved on into tET (tones equal
temperament).

In 1994 I met Enrique Moreno in Standford when I was doing myself
some work with brainwaves
and music at Biocontrol Systems there in Palo Alto. Enrique
introduced me to the Equal Divisions of other intervals
in the harmonic series. I did not keep in touch but I wonder if
anybody kept in touch with Enrique and knows
if he has been working more on this area???

I believe that his work used the following ratios:

R = n^(1/x)

where n is 2, 3, 5, 6 ... (I think he did not mention the double
octave, ratio 4)

x are the divisions of the ratio

His recordings with a soprano from Standford reminded me of
Carrillo's vocal works.

Tony Salinas

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

🔗Mohajeri Shahin <shahinm@kayson-ir.com>

Hi tony

first of all the difference is between rational and irrational intervals.
you know that 100.cent is an irrational interval but 89/84=100.099 is a rational approximation of it. so any equal divisions of 100. cent are irrational divisions and are different from rational divisions of 89/84.(but we can have pseudo-equal rational divisions also)so you see the below ratios as unequal rational divisions of 89/84.The first is part of 89-EDL and the second is part of 89-ADO:

1/1 0
89/88 19.56217479
89/87 39.34792214
89/86 59.36241152
89/85 79.61099379
89/84 100.0992098

1/1 0
85/84 20.48821603
43/42 40.73679831
29/28 60.75128768
22/21 80.53703503
89/84 100.0992098

an you know that interval like 1210 cent is an irrational non-octave but 175/86=1229.936 cent is is a rational approximation of it
so we can have n-irrationa/rational equal/unequal divisions of any rational/irrational interval (octave or non-octave).
But about my AID , it is only a model that the result may be a subset of a n-EDO like baran scale , and yes ,you cant find it in tonalsoft.
and you didn't answer my questions about 96-EDO , i'm waiting (-;

Shaahin Mohajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web site?? ???? ????? ?????? <http://240edo.googlepages.com/>

My farsi page in Harmonytalk ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? <http://www.harmonytalk.com/mohajeri>

Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaahin_mohajeri>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.A.Martin Salinas
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:22 AM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] AID systems

I have just been readingMohaneri Shahin page about Arithmetic
irrational divisions
and I was wandering what is irrational about it?

I also wonder Mohaneri if this is your original idea, what made you
look for a tuning
system that increases arithmetically the size of its interval through
the octave (and I
guess start over again in the next octave from the small interval
again)????

Adaptive tunings, or adaptive perfect timbral intonations might also
change the interval
sizes gradually but they have a purpose!!! I did not understand the
purpose of this AID
family of tunings, and I could not find it in Monzo's encyclopedia
neither.

Thanks

Tony Salinas

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

Hi Shaahin,

Good to know that there are other people out there using the 96-EDO.

Your page looks very good and you are more than welcome to use
a link to any of my pages is fine for me. I have to check the pdf
with the
diagrams for non-octal tunings in the 96-EDO (62.5cet/87.5cet...etc)
since I could not open it at all.

So I guess the 17 notes from persian music are originally pythagorean.
Pythagorean is a very useful system for the times there was no tuning
machines, but it would be interesting to know what subsets of the 96-EDO
do you use for Persian (classical?) music, and the notation too.

I have 96-EDO guitar and 96-EDO-bellophone exercises and a very short
piece, which I can try to load up on my page, when I get a bit of time.

I also have 96-EDO bellophone with ensemble but many videos badly
taken of the same performance which I have to edit when I get a chance.

Sorry to all for this delay! .... I would still send unedited work
upon request
specially to all the contributors of this list.

Shame not to hear about Enrique Moreno on this list, he did open a door
to non-octal tunings and there is not even a page on the web for his
compositions,
neither for his theoretical work with extended tunings.

Since I mentioned about pythagorean tunings, and there was a recent
discussion
about 22 sruthis (and its influence to Hindustani classical music) I
was wandering
if there are people on this list who play Carnatic classical music
(as the counter part
of Hindustani), which seems to stick more to the roots of the origins
of both musics
during the BC period of the Vedas, which it seems to be mostly
developed through
the Vedas.

Sincerely,

Tony Salinas

On 2007/08/19, at 13:16, Mohajeri Shahin wrote:

>
> Hi tony,how are u?
>
> i know that you work with 96-EDO. and i think it is a good frame
> work for persian music as now , 24-EDO is used to describe ideal 17-
> degrees of persian music.i'm working on an interval naming formula
> for 96 and accidentals based on vaziri's 24-EDO sori and koron
> (http://240edo.googlepages.com/about24-edo)
> i also added you as one working on 96-EDO in my page for 96-EDO.and
> also see your presentation of 96-EDO degrees in
> Salinas notation for 96-EDO
> do you have any music on internet for 96-EDO (not for Bellophones )?
> best wishes for you
>
> Shaahin Mohajeri
>
> Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer
>
> My web siteمهاجريوب سايت شاهين
>
> My farsi page in Harmonytalk صفحه اختصاصي در
> هارموني تاك
>
> Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia دردائره المعارف
> ويكي پدياشاهين مهاجري
>
>
>
> From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of J.A.Martin Salinas
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:06 PM
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [tuning] Enrique Moreno ... still using the extended tunings?
>
> Apart from last 12 months, I have been absent from this list since
> about the times ET was the terminology
> for equal temperament and then we moved on into tET (tones equal
> temperament).
>
> In 1994 I met Enrique Moreno in Standford when I was doing myself
> some work with brainwaves
> and music at Biocontrol Systems there in Palo Alto. Enrique
> introduced me to the Equal Divisions of other intervals
> in the harmonic series. I did not keep in touch but I wonder if
> anybody kept in touch with Enrique and knows
> if he has been working more on this area???
>
> I believe that his work used the following ratios:
>
> R = n^(1/x)
>
> where n is 2, 3, 5, 6 ... (I think he did not mention the double
> octave, ratio 4)
>
> x are the divisions of the ratio
>
> His recordings with a soprano from Standford reminded me of
> Carrillo's vocal works.
>
> Tony Salinas
>
>
>
>

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

Dear Shaahin,

Sorry but I do not have any other pieces for 96-EDO not using the 96-EDO
bellophone. I will let you know if so. I guess that answers you
question.

Thanks for clarifying your theories! I really appreciate it!

Only one thing... Are you calling non-octave to all the intervals
different than the
ratio 2/1 (1200 cent) wether they are bigger or smaller? How about
ratio 4/1?
... I guess that is also non-octave right?

I think Shaahin you are doing serious work with the ARDO (ADO) and
AID, etc ... but I am struggling to catch up with the tuning list not
having all in
one place.

By the way Monz, I have been reading your encyclopedia for 2 weeks
and it is a great
way to get updated with the list ...serious work!!! ...

QUESTION FOR MONZ (or list member who may have a solution)

Joe Monz (or list member/s), is there a way to track all the tuning
theories
proposed and discussed in the last 10 years on the tuning list which
do not
happen to be included on your encyclopedia rather than going through
the whole
bunch of messages?

On 2007/08/21, at 19:04, Mohajeri Shahin wrote:

>
> Hi tony
>
> first of all the difference is between rational and irrational
> intervals.
> you know that 100.cent is an irrational interval but 89/84=100.099
> is a rational approximation of it. so any equal divisions of 100. > cent are irrational divisions and are different from rational
> divisions of 89/84.(but we can have pseudo-equal rational divisions
> also)so you see the below ratios as unequal rational divisions of
> 89/84.The first is part of 89-EDL and the second is part of 89-ADO:
>
> 1/1 0
> 89/88 19.56217479
> 89/87 39.34792214
> 89/86 59.36241152
> 89/85 79.61099379
> 89/84 100.0992098
>
> 1/1 0
> 85/84 20.48821603
> 43/42 40.73679831
> 29/28 60.75128768
> 22/21 80.53703503
> 89/84 100.0992098
>
> an you know that interval like 1210 cent is an irrational non-
> octave but 175/86=1229.936 cent is is a rational approximation of it
> so we can have n-irrationa/rational equal/unequal divisions of any
> rational/irrational interval (octave or non-octave).
> But about my AID , it is only a model that the result may be a
> subset of a n-EDO like baran scale , and yes ,you cant find it in
> tonalsoft.
> and you didn't answer my questions about 96-EDO , i'm waiting (-;
> Shaahin Mohajeri
>
> Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer
>
> My web siteمهاجريوب سايت شاهين
>
> My farsi page in Harmonytalk صفحه اختصاصي در
> هارموني تاك
>
> Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia دردائره المعارف
> ويكي پدياشاهين مهاجري
>
>
>
> From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of J.A.Martin Salinas
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:22 AM
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [tuning] AID systems
>
> I have just been readingMohaneri Shahin page about Arithmetic
> irrational divisions
> and I was wandering what is irrational about it?
>
> I also wonder Mohaneri if this is your original idea, what made you
> look for a tuning
> system that increases arithmetically the size of its interval through
> the octave (and I
> guess start over again in the next octave from the small interval
> again)????
>
> Adaptive tunings, or adaptive perfect timbral intonations might also
> change the interval
> sizes gradually but they have a purpose!!! I did not understand the
> purpose of this AID
> family of tunings, and I could not find it in Monzo's encyclopedia
> neither.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony Salinas
>
>
>

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Tony,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:

> By the way Monz, I have been reading your encyclopedia
> for 2 weeks and it is a great way to get updated with
> the list ...serious work!!! ...

Thanks, i appreciate that. It was a lot of work,
and now that it's so big it's still a lot of work
to maintain it. Glad that you find it useful.

> QUESTION FOR MONZ (or list member who may have a solution)
>
> Joe Monz (or list member/s), is there a way to track
> all the tuning theories proposed and discussed in the
> last 10 years on the tuning list which do not happen
> to be included on your encyclopedia rather than going
> through the whole bunch of messages?

Actually, i tried hard to put anything i found on the
tuning list into the Encyclopedia up until 2005. At
that point i had to take a break from doing so much
work on the Encyclopedia, to do other things (like
earn a more expensive living, and now to raise a baby).

So it's only the important things from the last 2 years
which may not have gotten in there. I've actually taken
several long breaks from the tuning list during that time
too, and the one thing that i really don't know about
at all is Mohajeri's theoretical ideas.

While the vast majority of my Encyclopedia is my own
work, it has always been done in the spirit of a
community project. So if anyone has anything that they
really think should be in there, the easiest way for
me to get it in there is for you to post a message here
with "proposed Encyclopedia page" in the subject line,
with the body of the message containing exactly what
you want me to put on the Encyclopedia page.
(hint to Mohajeri ...)

Also, i want to repeat again that Paul Erlich sent
me numerous corrections of errors which appear in the
Tonalsoft Encyclopedia which i still have not incorporated.
I'll eventually get to it ...

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

Hi Joe Monz and list members

Your work with Tonalsoft encyclopedia is awesome so do not worry
about the last two years, since you already saved me thousand of
hours trying to catch up.

It was about time for you to take a break and concentrate with the
family! ... and please do spare some of your free time with us and
expanding your encyclopedia!

Also let us know from which date you started
to look at the tuning list for your encyclopedia since it seems that the
EARTHA list (previous name for this forum)
has some things to keep in mind that might not be mentioned on
your encyclopedia, like for example the work of Enrique Moreno,
which I cannot find anywhere.

I PROPOSE that the tuning community share links to their sites specially
if there is no link or mention on Tonalsoft encyclopedia:

www.microtonality.wikispaces.com

This is just a quick suggestion on top of my head which I am happy to
change according to suggestions on this list.

This might also make it easy for you Monz to build your encyclopedia and save us
(people trying to catch up with the list) a lot of research time too

If somebody on the list including Monz might know a better way to make things
easier for people who need to catch up with the list I can always delete this
microtonality page suggestion and contribute with the new idea.

Sincerely,

Tony Salinas

On 2007/08/22, at 7:08, monz wrote:

> Hi Tony,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
>
> > By the way Monz, I have been reading your encyclopedia
> > for 2 weeks and it is a great way to get updated with
> > the list ...serious work!!! ...
>
> Thanks, i appreciate that. It was a lot of work,
> and now that it's so big it's still a lot of work
> to maintain it. Glad that you find it useful.
>
> > QUESTION FOR MONZ (or list member who may have a solution)
> >
> > Joe Monz (or list member/s), is there a way to track
> > all the tuning theories proposed and discussed in the
> > last 10 years on the tuning list which do not happen
> > to be included on your encyclopedia rather than going
> > through the whole bunch of messages?
>
> Actually, i tried hard to put anything i found on the
> tuning list into the Encyclopedia up until 2005. At
> that point i had to take a break from doing so much
> work on the Encyclopedia, to do other things (like
> earn a more expensive living, and now to raise a baby).
>
> So it's only the important things from the last 2 years
> which may not have gotten in there. I've actually taken
> several long breaks from the tuning list during that time
> too, and the one thing that i really don't know about
> at all is Mohajeri's theoretical ideas.
>
> While the vast majority of my Encyclopedia is my own
> work, it has always been done in the spirit of a
> community project. So if anyone has anything that they
> really think should be in there, the easiest way for
> me to get it in there is for you to post a message here
> with "proposed Encyclopedia page" in the subject line,
> with the body of the message containing exactly what
> you want me to put on the Encyclopedia page.
> (hint to Mohajeri ...)
>
> Also, i want to repeat again that Paul Erlich sent
> me numerous corrections of errors which appear in the
> Tonalsoft Encyclopedia which i still have not incorporated.
> I'll eventually get to it ...
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>
>
>

🔗hstraub64 <hstraub64@telesonique.net>

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

This was more a proposal rather than a new page at the moment

What it would be ideal is that the 2 web pages you mentioned integrate and add
the ideas from my proposal that are not included on those 2 pages and
many other ideas by people on the list for the new members to come and
for the tuning forums as an A to Z reference page to microtonal related
subjects that may only link to lists of links or to additional information
that has not been dealt with.

For 2 months I am reviewing all that has been done but not sure that I will
understand it all since maths are getting more and more complicated though!
In the process I am thinking of organizing all on an A to Z format proposed at:

www.microtonality.wikispaces.com

unless somebody suggests something better!!!!

I am happy to classify all on-line if people are dwelling to place links
on the page. It would take me double work to ask one by one if people
do not mind me placing a link to their site.

I am also happy for people to mail:

tony@tonysalinas.com

and say feel free to place a link to my page on
www.microtonality.wikispaces.com

At the moment I am collecting links and I am going to ask
formally on another message

There is so much stuff available but there is no organized
way to go through it all

Monzo did a great job with the A to Z encyclopedia of theory.

It is only the theory that is covered though and up to 2005
with probably some EARTHA things missing

Among other things:

> http://moinmoin.riters.com/microtonal

Has the greatest microtonal listening list that could also be improved if
one could access it by tuning employed ... but I have no records of this list
agreeing to a tuning classification...am I right?

> http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com

Has a loads of information I could not find anywhere else
I loved the ET scales ... I would love McLaren to place more
info about his piano pieces for much more ETs that are indicated
there though.

On 2007/08/26, at 19:42, hstraub64 wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
> >
> > I PROPOSE that the tuning community share links to their sites
> > specially if there is no link or mention on Tonalsoft encyclopedia:
> >
> > www.microtonality.wikispaces.com
> >
> > This is just a quick suggestion on top of my head which I am happy
> > to change according to suggestions on this list.
> >
> > This might also make it easy for you Monz to build your
> > encyclopedia and save us(people trying to catch up with the list) a
> > lot of research time too
> >
> > If somebody on the list including Monz might know a better way to
> > make things
> > easier for people who need to catch up with the list I can always
> > delete this
> > microtonality page suggestion and contribute with the new idea.
> >
>
> Hmm - did you just create the wiki above? So there would be 3
> microtonal wikis now - there are already
> http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com and
> http://moinmoin.riters.com/microtonal
>
> Was there a specific reason for you to create another wiki - something
> like, for example, a slightly different focus or so? If not, I would
> propose you join one of the two existing wikis.
> --> Hans Straub
>
>
>

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

🔗Jacob <jbarton@rice.edu>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
>
> As an attempt to organize the microtonal links on the WEB,
> I have started a microtonal community page for us to place
> our links.
>
> For 2 months I am happy to place the link for you if you mail me
> your website:
>
> tony@...
>
> Also feel free to place a link or arrange the site by yourself if
> necessary:
>
> www.microtonality.wikispaces.com
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tony Salinas

Dear Tony and others,

please please pleeeeease consider my offer of
xenharmonic.wikispaces.com for all your microtonal wiki-ing needs! I
have gently pleaded (and plan to plead with increasing annoyance) for
more help in making that site a viable, useful, coherent source of
information, not just a pile of links. so many people have made pages
upon pages of microtonal links - can you explain what your aims are in
this new one?

the purposes of the xenharmonic wiki, which are stated somewhere on
it, include making a community space that is not dependent on the
ephemeral and daunting flow of email, and making a space for the
generation of New Content through collaboration (I think this is the
content unique to it right now). If your aims are similar, do join the
project. Even if they aren't, there's plenty of room on the one wiki
for multiple aims and projects.

Wiki glut - a good problem to have?

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

Hi Jacob!

I would be very happy to work with you on this!!!

My idea was simply instead of making a tree on my bookmarks, which
I cannot access on other computers, I would do it on a web page where other
people can also contribute and/or get benefit from.

An A to Z to microtonality works well since makes all easy and quick to find.
Monzo's A to Z theory worked just so well for me as a starting point!

Tony

On 2007/08/27, at 17:03, Jacob wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
> >
> > As an attempt to organize the microtonal links on the WEB,
> > I have started a microtonal community page for us to place
> > our links.
> >
> > For 2 months I am happy to place the link for you if you mail me
> > your website:
> >
> > tony@...
> >
> > Also feel free to place a link or arrange the site by yourself if
> > necessary:
> >
> > www.microtonality.wikispaces.com
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Tony Salinas
>
> Dear Tony and others,
>
> please please pleeeeease consider my offer of
> xenharmonic.wikispaces.com for all your microtonal wiki-ing needs! I
> have gently pleaded (and plan to plead with increasing annoyance) for
> more help in making that site a viable, useful, coherent source of
> information, not just a pile of links. so many people have made pages
> upon pages of microtonal links - can you explain what your aims are in
> this new one?
>
> the purposes of the xenharmonic wiki, which are stated somewhere on
> it, include making a community space that is not dependent on the
> ephemeral and daunting flow of email, and making a space for the
> generation of New Content through collaboration (I think this is the
> content unique to it right now). If your aims are similar, do join the
> project. Even if they aren't, there's plenty of room on the one wiki
> for multiple aims and projects.
>
> Wiki glut - a good problem to have?
>
>
>

🔗hstraub64 <hstraub64@telesonique.net>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jacob!
>
> I would be very happy to work with you on this!!!
>
> My idea was simply instead of making a tree on my bookmarks, which
> I cannot access on other computers, I would do it on a web page
> where other people can also contribute and/or get benefit from.
>
> An A to Z to microtonality works well since makes all easy and quick
> to find.
> Monzo's A to Z theory worked just so well for me as a starting
> point!
>

I think most of the things on your site would be good on any of the
existing wikis - for example the "bibliographies" section. I just
created one on the xenharmonic wiki and put your link on it
(http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/MicrotonalTheory - I hope I have
your permission).

The point is just: The work was done twice, and there is now twice the
same information on the web - where there is a chronical information
glut anyway...

A to Z index is a good idea, too - I just put one one the xenharmonic
wikis listening list
(http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/MicrotonalListeningList - still a
little ugly, though).

(As for wiki glut, BTW - Jacob, this would, strictly speaking, apply
to you, too, since you created the xenharmonic wiki although there
already was the one on riters.com...)

But anyway, it's your decision. It's just that I don't see much sense
in contributing to more than one microtonal wiki.
--
Hans Straub

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

🔗J.A.Martin Salinas <tony@tonysalinas.com>

Hi Hans, Jacob and tuning community,

The A to Z by author listening list is great, but on the other hand, I could only
reach it by the link you sent me. There is no link I could find anywhere at all
going from the main page. Listening should be it, but it has something else.

It is great how you can program a directory A to Z on the same page. It is also
not obvious how to change the main directory on the left with wikispaces, which
means that it is restricted to the ones with the knowledge ( which I do not have!
... in case someone wants to share it in private or here ..tony@tonysalinas.com)

As for having to ask a person for a link, it is polite, but it is time consuming when
you intend to do do so much stuff. Everyone I asked told me of course share
my info which is why I am placing it on the internet. I say the same to everyone
now and save anybody asking me about my page. Is there a way to save asking
everyone individually?

There are 3 microtonal festivals in US, one in UK, that I know of, which happen on a yearly
basis at the least. This is important. ... I think it is important as an option that the reader
can click on the main menu (ideally A to Z to save time ) on Festivals / Organizations or Institutions /
Performances / Performers / ... etc ... in order to find what he/she wants quickly and effectively

Xenharmonics is a very well cultivated term among microtonalists in the same way that the Katakana
and Hiragana script made japanese language so unique.

QUESTION TO THE MICROTONAL WIKI COMMUNITY

If at the moment you want to make things easy for the new microtonalists to come, why do you want
to use a language that is restricted to the microtonal community as the tittle of the page and link to page?

Not a very useful keyword for the new comers

Microtonal and microtonality are words that are recognized among non-microtonal musicians
or music lovers, so why don't we use them if what we want is to promote it and inspire new
generations???

Hans, Jacob and wiki community, this is my reformed proposal. If you want to expand your work together
for the benefit of the new generations to come and giving the new comers the choice of the kind of
sources they wants to go for, this is how I would extend it (please correct me if I am missing the point):

title: MICROTONALITY or MICROTONAL RESOURCES

PUBLISHED RESOURCES and ORGANIZATIONS (which can sponsor our time invested on this development)

1) Recommended libraries for microtonal entries with advice on how to borrow
(A to Z by countries)
2) Accessible microtonal instrument collections
(A t o Z by countries)
3) Bibliography (links to bibliography and ideally recompilation of all of them into the wiki one)
4) Discography (links to bibliography and ideally recompilation of all of them into the wiki one)
5) Videography (links to bibliography and ideally recompilation of all of them into the wiki one)
6) Universities teaching microtonality subjects.
(eg. London Metropolitan University: 'Scales, Tunings and Temperaments - LINK)
7) Other Institutions and individuals providing access to microtonality related resources and lessons

ON-LINE RESOURCES

1) Microtonality by Category (with something like what you all have already started and much more)

1.A.MICROTONAL THEORY

1A.1.Background Theory

++Tools for the study of the theory
++++Maths
++++Acoustics
++++Philosophy& Physics if necessary, etc...
++Tuning classification (agreed by everyone)
++Mapping tuning systems
++etc...

1.A.2 Theory of tuning (this just an example on top of my head but certainly something to discuss)

++JI and non-beating constructions
++Logarithmic constructions
++Timbral Intonations
++NBNL (non beating/non logarithmic) constructions
++Dynamic systems

1.A.3 Theory of Scales

1.A.4 Ornamentation

1.B.MICROTONAL PRACTICE

1.B.1.Audio-Visual links
1.B.2.Instruments
1.B.3.Representation
++++++Scores
++++++Notation
++++++Fonts
1.B.4.Software
1.B.5.Hardware
1.B.6.Practicioners
++++++Composers
++++++Instrument Makers
++++++Theorists
++++++Programmers
++++++Lecturers
++++++Performers
1.B.7 Locations and events
++++++Libraries
++++++Institutions
1.B.8 Events
++++++Festivals
++++++Concerts
++++++Workshops
1.B.9 Lessons
++++++Universities (eg. London Metropolitan: 'Scales, Tunings & Temperaments)
++++++Private & On-line
1.B.10 On-Line communities
++++++Universities
Institutions/Festivals/Concerts

2) Microtonality A to Z

what I started could be developed as an A to Z tool like what Monzo did with his site
www.microtonality.wikispaces.com
(not trying to get credits, and so happy to transfer all to other site, or to a site that
belongs and it is started by a the microtonal community and not an individual)

Sincerely,

Tony Salinas

On 2007/08/28, at 4:26, hstraub64 wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jacob!
> >
> > I would be very happy to work with you on this!!!
> >
> > My idea was simply instead of making a tree on my bookmarks, which
> > I cannot access on other computers, I would do it on a web page
> > where other people can also contribute and/or get benefit from.
> >
> > An A to Z to microtonality works well since makes all easy and quick
> > to find.
> > Monzo's A to Z theory worked just so well for me as a starting
> > point!
> >
>
> I think most of the things on your site would be good on any of the
> existing wikis - for example the "bibliographies" section. I just
> created one on the xenharmonic wiki and put your link on it
> (http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/MicrotonalTheory - I hope I have
> your permission).
>
> The point is just: The work was done twice, and there is now twice the
> same information on the web - where there is a chronical information
> glut anyway...
>
> A to Z index is a good idea, too - I just put one one the xenharmonic
> wikis listening list
> (http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/MicrotonalListeningList - still a
> little ugly, though).
>
> (As for wiki glut, BTW - Jacob, this would, strictly speaking, apply
> to you, too, since you created the xenharmonic wiki although there
> already was the one on riters.com...)
>
> But anyway, it's your decision. It's just that I don't see much sense
> in contributing to more than one microtonal wiki.
> --> Hans Straub
>
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

🔗mikal haley <chipsterthehipster@gmail.com>

🔗hstraub64 <hstraub64@telesonique.net>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "J.A.Martin Salinas" <tony@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Hans, Jacob and tuning community,
>
> The A to Z by author listening list is great, but on the other hand,
> I could only reach it by the link you sent me. There is no link I
> could find anywhere at all going from the main page. Listening
> should be it, but it has something else.
>

Listening it is. The link I sent is there, the first link on the page.
Not very conspicuous, that's true. There sure is potential for
improvement of the navigation and menu structure. There is just no
need to discuss this here - just do it!

>
> It is great how you can program a directory A to Z on the same page.
> It is also not obvious how to change the main directory on the left
> with wikispaces, which means that it is restricted to the ones with
> the knowledge ( which I do not have!
>

Knowledge is the keypoint, indeed - the help system of wikispaces is
not the clearest one... How to create an automatic table of content is
decribed on http://www.wikispaces.com/wikitext - but you have to sort
of stumble over it...

As for the navigation bar on the left, there is a link "edit
navigation" on the bottom. After clikcing that, you can edit the
navigation bar as any page.

>
> As for having to ask a person for a link, it is polite, but it is
> time consuming when you intend to do do so much stuff. Everyone I
> asked told me of course share my info which is why I am placing it
> on the internet. I say the same to everyone
> now and save anybody asking me about my page. Is there a way to save
> asking everyone individually?
>

I would say: asking permission to place a link to a site ist not
necessary - sites are in the web to get attention anyway. Asking
permission to copy content, however, is.

>
> There are 3 microtonal festivals in US, one in UK, that I know of,
> which happen on a yearly basis at the least. This is important. ...
> I think it is important as an option that the reader can click on
> the main menu (ideally A to Z to save time ) on Festivals /
> Organizations or Institutions / Performances / Performers / ... etc
> ... in order to find what he/she wants quickly and effectively
>

Sure, good idea. But not need top ask permission here - just do it!

>
> Xenharmonics is a very well cultivated term among microtonalists in
> the same way that the Katakana
> and Hiragana script made japanese language so unique.
>
> QUESTION TO THE MICROTONAL WIKI COMMUNITY
>
> If at the moment you want to make things easy for the new
> microtonalists to come, why do you want
> to use a language that is restricted to the microtonal community as
> the tittle of the page and link to page?
>
> Not a very useful keyword for the new comers
>
> Microtonal and microtonality are words that are recognized among
> non-microtonal musicians or music lovers, so why don't we use them
> if what we want is to promote it and inspire new generations???
>

Possibly "microtonal" is the better term than "xenharmonic".

Personally, however, I do not think that the name does matter that
much. When you go to www.wikispaces.com and search for "microtonal",
you get hits to the xenharmonic wiki as well. I am biased, of course,
because I have already put quite some amount of work into the
xenharmonic one... In any case, one point is: of the three microtonal
wikis, the xenharmonic one is has currently the largest amount of
content, so moving that one would be the most work...

> Hans, Jacob and wiki community, this is my reformed proposal. If you
> want to expand your work together
> for the benefit of the new generations to come and giving the new
> comers the choice of the kind of
> sources they wants to go for, this is how I would extend it (please
> correct me if I am missing the point):
>

I see only one open point: which wiki it should be.

As for the rest: It is good ideas you outlined. There is just no need
to propose - again: just do it!
--
Hans Straub