Re: Indie rocker mixes math with music

Just my own opinion, but I was fairly unimpressed with his
"non-Pythagorean scale". However, he does seem quite happy with it --
and with himself for "discovering" it -- so I suppose it's a good thing.

Does anyone know if The Indie Rocker is under the
impression that the standard scale of the world (or
perhaps the standard scale of the western world), is
the Pythagorean scale?

If he is, this might help explain why he would refer
to what he has discovered as a "non-Pythagorean
scale".

Considering that there are infinite numbers of
possible scales in the world, to call a scale
"non-Pythagorean" tells us only what his presumed
newfangled scale _isn't_, it gives us no clue as to
what that new scale _is_!

By all means, Mr. Rocker, please tell us precisely
what your new scale _is_.

Mark Rankin

--- "J.Smith" <jsmith9624@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Just my own opinion, but I was fairly unimpressed
> with his
> "non-Pythagorean scale". However, he does seem quite
> happy with it --
> and with himself for "discovering" it -- so I
> suppose it's a good thing.
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

Hi Mark,

Actually I think it's a very fair characterization.

The World's scales are predominantly 3/2-based. His
scale isn't.

-Carl

> Does anyone know if The Indie Rocker is under the
> impression that the standard scale of the world (or
> perhaps the standard scale of the western world), is
> the Pythagorean scale?
>
> If he is, this might help explain why he would refer
> to what he has discovered as a "non-Pythagorean
> scale".
>
> Considering that there are infinite numbers of
> possible scales in the world, to call a scale
> "non-Pythagorean" tells us only what his presumed
> newfangled scale _isn't_, it gives us no clue as to
> what that new scale _is_!
>
> By all means, Mr. Rocker, please tell us precisely
> what your new scale _is_.
>
> Mark Rankin

Actually very few cultures have 3/2 based scales. The whole southern hemisphere is out South east Asia is out. Central America is out. American Indian, China is half out. you only have what is left. Carl Lumma wrote

Hi Mark,

Actually I think it's a very fair characterization.

The World's scales are predominantly 3/2-based. His
scale isn't.
--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Rankin" <markrankin95511@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Indie rocker mixes math with music

> Does anyone know if The Indie Rocker is under the
> impression that the standard scale of the world (or
> perhaps the standard scale of the western world), is
> the Pythagorean scale?

As Kraig said, not the whole world. The most well-known scales that aren't based on 3/2 are those used in gamelan music. Pelog tuning uses "fifths" that are WAY off 3/2.

> If he is, this might help explain why he would refer
> to what he has discovered as a "non-Pythagorean
> scale".
>
> Considering that there are infinite numbers of
> possible scales in the world, to call a scale
> "non-Pythagorean" tells us only what his presumed
> newfangled scale _isn't_, it gives us no clue as to
> what that new scale _is_!
>
> By all means, Mr. Rocker, please tell us precisely
> what your new scale _is_.

He defines it on his band's website, and we just discussed it here onlist. The whole point is to be non-Pythagorean for the sake of being non-Pythagorean. The scale is irrational with the exception for the root, octave and fifth where the fourth would normally be. Otherwise, the scale is unequal and irregular.

(The scale does include the JI ratio 3/2, so it's not completely "non-Pythagorean"...)

I'd never use it myself, since I'd have to use something that contains 3/2, 4/3, 9/8 and 16/9 at least, or their tempered equivalents, but at least he's doing something besides 12-equal.

~D.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
> Actually very few cultures have 3/2 based scales.
> The whole southern hemisphere is out

I'm afraid I can't agree with that.

> Central America is out.
> American Indian,

I've done a fair bit of research on music of native
Amazon people, and I don't think they have a scale
at all. I don't know much about American Indian, but
I suspect the same was true.

-Carl

> > Does anyone know if The Indie Rocker is under the
> > impression that the standard scale of the world (or
> > perhaps the standard scale of the western world), is
> > the Pythagorean scale?
>
> As Kraig said, not the whole world. The most well-known
> scales that aren't based on 3/2 are those used in gamelan
> music. Pelog tuning uses "fifths" that are WAY off 3/2.

Way off, but still a 5ths-based scale.

-Carl