Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: [tuning] Re: Wikipedia Tonescape page (OT)

On 7/11/07, kylegann1955 <kylegann1955@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Monz,
>
> I just ran across your complaints about Wikipedia. If I hadn't made such a public stink
> about how Wikipedia is a waste of time, I'd e-march right over there and write a new
> article about you, and rip Wikipedia a new one while I'm at it.

Please explain how you'd "rip Wikipedia a new one". Many vandals would
love to do that, but none are very successful. Do you think you have a
secret weapon?

> But now it would look
> hypocritical, and I have come to really believe that getting your ideas in Wikipedia is about
> as prestigious as getting quoted on a matchbook cover.

This is an important realization. It's not supposed to be
"prestigious". Please, spread this idea around, and maybe people will
stop acting so offended when articles about them are legitimately
deleted.

> Nothing written there will ever be
> safe from the vandalism of overgrown children; you write your name in the sand, if that
> amuses you, and then walk away.

Or, rather than "your name in the sand", you actually contribute
something useful, and then other people protect it from vandalism,
because it's valuable to them.

> I'm considering trying out Citizendium:
>
> http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Main_Page
>
> which one has to register at to edit, and claims to value true expert input. I suspect that
> some new, better-administrated, user-written encyclopedia will arise, and that within a
> couple more years Wikipedia will downgrade (if this is even a downgrade) into a site never
> consulted for anything more pertinent than reality show trivia and The Simpsons'
> statistics.

Intelligent people don't consult Wikipedia articles themselves for
serious research anyway. They consult the Wikipedia article's
*references*. If Wikipedia had no references, it would really be as
useless as you say it is.

I try to think of Wikipedia as a giant bibliography of all subjects,
with extra-long summaries. Of course, it's still a long way from that
goal, but it's getting better all the time.

> But I emphatically agree with what others have said here: Tonalsoft is an
> invulnerable, easily accessed monument that renders Wikipedia and its ilk redundant.

I don't understand what you mean by that at all. Tonalsoft is an
encyclopedia "of microtonal music theory". Wikipedia is an
encyclopedia of everything. Where's the redundancy?

Also, Tonalsoft says "You agree you will not distribute, publish,
transmit, modify, display or create derivative works from or exploit
the contents of this site in any way." That's a far cry from the GFDL,
and that's the reason why I will never contribute to Tonalsoft unless
the license is changed.

Keenan

🔗kylegann1955 <kylegann1955@yahoo.com>

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Kyle and Keenan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
>
> On 7/11/07, kylegann1955 <kylegann1955@...> wrote:

> > Nothing written there [Wikipedia] will ever be
> > safe from the vandalism of overgrown children;
> > you write your name in the sand, if that
> > amuses you, and then walk away.
>
> Or, rather than "your name in the sand", you actually
> contribute something useful, and then other people
> protect it from vandalism, because it's valuable to them.

But unfortunately, the Wikipedia editors have to be
so aggressive about trying to reverse vandalism,
vanity, etc., that they do remove useful stuff too.

> [Keenan:]
> Intelligent people don't consult Wikipedia articles
> themselves for serious research anyway. They consult
> the Wikipedia article's *references*. If Wikipedia had
> no references, it would really be as useless as you
> say it is.

More than the disappearance of pages about me and
my work, what really bothers me is that at one fell
swoop a Wikipedia editor removed every external link
in Wikipedia which pointed to a Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
page ... including many which were put there by people
other than me.

This is a real disappointment, because in every case
a Wikipedia page which had an external link to Tonalsoft
contained only a summary of the information and the
Tonalsoft page explores the subject in much greater
detail.

> > [Kyle:]
> > But I emphatically agree with what others have
> > said here: Tonalsoft is an invulnerable, easily
> > accessed monument that renders Wikipedia and its
> > ilk redundant.

Thanks, Kyle, for your wonderful compliments about
my work. Rest assured that as long as i'm alive it
will continue to grow and dig ever deeper into what
still lies unavailable to most people.

> I don't understand what you mean by that at all.
> Tonalsoft is an encyclopedia "of microtonal music
> theory". Wikipedia is an encyclopedia of everything.
> Where's the redundancy?

Of course Kyle is only talking about Wikipedia pages
concerning subjects which Tonalsoft deals with.
Specifically: microtonal music, tuning theory,
music history -- and in the case of my one really
long webpage (A Century of New Music in Vienna),
Beethoven, Mahler, and Schoenberg.

Wikipedia is of course a generalized universal
encyclopedia. The Tonalsoft Encyclopedia of
Microtonal Music-Theory says what it is in its name.

BTW, how is this thread "off-topic"?

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Keenan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:

> Also, Tonalsoft says "You agree you will not distribute,
> publish, transmit, modify, display or create derivative
> works from or exploit the contents of this site in any way."
> That's a far cry from the GFDL, and that's the reason why
> I will never contribute to Tonalsoft unless the license
> is changed.

And BTW, people *have* ignored that license. I've seen
my own words lifted from a Tonalsoft page and inserted
intact into several Wikipedia articles, without any
reference to the Tonalsoft page whatsoever.

Of course, if the Wikipedia editors are going to delete
all links to Tonalsoft anyway, calling it "oft-repeated
spam", then what difference does it make? This makes it
impossible for me *or anyone else* to add citations to
my own work.

Should i then aggressively monitor all Wikipedia pages on
subjects about which i've written, and delete information
that is quoted from me without a citation, as soon as i
see it appear? ... and thus, make the Wikipedia pages
less informative?

Hopefully this helps you get a perspective on Kyle's
(and my) misgivings about Wikipedia.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi all,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:

> > [Keenan:]
> > Intelligent people don't consult Wikipedia articles
> > themselves for serious research anyway. They consult
> > the Wikipedia article's *references*. If Wikipedia had
> > no references, it would really be as useless as you
> > say it is.
>
> [monz:]
> More than the disappearance of pages about me and
> my work, what really bothers me is that at one fell
> swoop a Wikipedia editor removed every external link
> in Wikipedia which pointed to a Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
> page ... including many which were put there by people
> other than me.
>
> This is a real disappointment, because in every case
> a Wikipedia page which had an external link to Tonalsoft
> contained only a summary of the information and the
> Tonalsoft page explores the subject in much greater
> detail.

I was going to write the following, because it was still
true as of last night:

>> To get an idea of the scale of this fiasco, just type
>> "tonalsoft" into the Wikipedia search box, and you'll
>> get a list of all the Wikipedia pages which used to have
>> external links to the Tonalsoft Encyclopedia.

However, upon checking just now, i see that Wikipedia
has "permanently removed" all these "Dead external links".

So right now the only way to find any of the Wikipedia
pages which had the external links to Tonalsoft, is to
do a site-specific search on Google, Yahoo, etc.
Thankfully Wikipedia at least makes this easy by putting
a link on the page you see when you search for something
that doesn't have its own page.

It's easy to reinstate the links to Tonalsoft, simply
by going to the page which used to have the external
link, clicking the "history" tab, and clicking the "undo"
link on the line which lists the deletion ... the
links to Tonalsoft were all deleted by Wikipedia
user ID Wknight.

At least i think this should work. But i'm not going to
try it, because it was my editing of pages about me and
my fixing the incorrect URLs for the Tonalsoft links
which got them all deleted in the first place. So if
any of you want those links in Wikipedia, you'll have
to do it.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

> > > Nothing written there [Wikipedia] will ever be
> > > safe from the vandalism of overgrown children;
> > > you write your name in the sand, if that
> > > amuses you, and then walk away.
> >
> > Or, rather than "your name in the sand", you actually
> > contribute something useful, and then other people
> > protect it from vandalism, because it's valuable to them.
>
> But unfortunately, the Wikipedia editors have to be
> so aggressive about trying to reverse vandalism,
> vanity, etc., that they do remove useful stuff too.

All the more reason to be very careful about the vanity
issue when posting something.

> > [Keenan:]
> > Intelligent people don't consult Wikipedia articles
> > themselves for serious research anyway. They consult
> > the Wikipedia article's *references*. If Wikipedia had
> > no references, it would really be as useless as you
> > say it is.
>
> More than the disappearance of pages about me and
> my work, what really bothers me is that at one fell
> swoop a Wikipedia editor removed every external link
> in Wikipedia which pointed to a Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
> page ... including many which were put there by people
> other than me.
>
> This is a real disappointment, because in every case
> a Wikipedia page which had an external link to Tonalsoft
> contained only a summary of the information and the
> Tonalsoft page explores the subject in much greater
> detail.

Tonalsoft's site is also a commercial site (you are
selling something). And by posting links to it in all
sorts of inappropriate places, you raised eyebrows and
got all the links deleted.

-Carl

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@cox.net>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
> Tonalsoft's site is also a commercial site (you are
> selling something). And by posting links to it in all
> sorts of inappropriate places, you raised eyebrows and
> got all the links deleted.

Yeah, that. Monz, you should really consider registering a new domain,
and placing your encyclopedia as a separate, academic entity on the
web, completely disassociated with any commercial product. In this
way, you might gain the wide-spread readership you desire, and it
would remove the taint of a commercial product in the background.

Just something to consider.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Carl,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:

> Tonalsoft's site is also a commercial site (you are
> selling something). And by posting links to it in all
> sorts of inappropriate places, you raised eyebrows and
> got all the links deleted.

"All sorts of inappropriate places"? Such as?
I'd also appreciate you saying more about *why* those
places are inappropriate.

BTW, we aren't selling anything -- Tonescape is currently
free, and so is everything else our site offers. Yes,
the plan *is* to sell Tonescape -- but unless we either
find an investor who really *is* serious about backing
our venture, or become wealthy some other way ourselves,
so that we can continue developing it properly, it's
going to stay as it is right now and also stay free.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Jon,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
> > Tonalsoft's site is also a commercial site (you are
> > selling something). And by posting links to it in all
> > sorts of inappropriate places, you raised eyebrows and
> > got all the links deleted.
>
> Yeah, that. Monz, you should really consider registering
> a new domain, and placing your encyclopedia as a separate,
> academic entity on the web, completely disassociated with
> any commercial product. In this way, you might gain the
> wide-spread readership you desire, and it would remove
> the taint of a commercial product in the background.
>
> Just something to consider.

I can appreciate that. But as i've said before, the plan
is to eventually integrate the Encyclopedia into Tonescape
and vice versa. And anyway it's already costing me as
much as i can handle to keep the Tonalsoft domain going.
Remember, it's not earning me any income ...

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 7/11/07, monz <monz@tonalsoft.com> wrote:
> More than the disappearance of pages about me and
> my work, what really bothers me is that at one fell
> swoop a Wikipedia editor removed every external link
> in Wikipedia which pointed to a Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
> page ... including many which were put there by people
> other than me.

Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with that either. I mean, some of the links
were to the main Tonalsoft Encyclopedia page instead of a specific
article, which is borderline, but linking to the corresponding article
pretty clearly falls under this "What should be linked" criterion:

"Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be
integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount
of detail... or other reasons."

I'll look over them, and if I see any that are unquestionably
relevant, I'll restore them.

> BTW, how is this thread "off-topic"?

Um... it's not about tuning? My post wasn't related to tuning at all;
I was just defending Wikipedia from its detractors.

Keenan

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 7/11/07, monz <monz@tonalsoft.com> wrote:
> And BTW, people *have* ignored that license. I've seen
> my own words lifted from a Tonalsoft page and inserted
> intact into several Wikipedia articles, without any
> reference to the Tonalsoft page whatsoever.

That's violating your copyright, so you should remove it immediately
and report it to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Copyright
if it reappears. In fact, if you notice it and *don't* remove it or
make a complaint, it's kinda like you're implicitely granting
permission for it to be distributed under the GFDL. Of course, IANAL.

> Of course, if the Wikipedia editors are going to delete
> all links to Tonalsoft anyway, calling it "oft-repeated
> spam", then what difference does it make? This makes it
> impossible for me *or anyone else* to add citations to
> my own work.

Was this more than one editor, or just Wknight94?

Also, there's supposed to be a huge difference between a source
citation and an external link. If the Tonalsoft article was used as a
source in writing the Wikipedia article, or if it's the only available
publication that verifies certain claims, it should be cited as a
source. Putting it in the external links section means it's not a
source and therefore not as important. External links are just other
miscellaneous resources readers might be interested in.

> Should i then aggressively monitor all Wikipedia pages on
> subjects about which i've written, and delete information
> that is quoted from me without a citation, as soon as i
> see it appear? ... and thus, make the Wikipedia pages
> less informative?

If you mean "text" instead of "information", then yes, if you feel
it's necessary. It's more important for a Wikipedia article to be
legally distributable than it is to be informative. Copyright
infringement is very serious.

> Hopefully this helps you get a perspective on Kyle's
> (and my) misgivings about Wikipedia.

The only complaints I see are about certain Wikipedia users, one who
jumped to conclusions and removed a bunch of external links, and
others who violated copyright. There are established ways to deal with
both these problems.

Keenan

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Keenan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
>
> On 7/11/07, monz <monz@...> wrote:
> > More than the disappearance of pages about me and
> > my work, what really bothers me is that at one fell
> > swoop a Wikipedia editor removed every external link
> > in Wikipedia which pointed to a Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
> > page ... including many which were put there by people
> > other than me.
>
> Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with that either. I mean,
> some of the links were to the main Tonalsoft Encyclopedia
> page instead of a specific article, which is borderline,

Hmm ... well, as i said i had edited a lot of the
external links because the URLs were outdated, so
i guess the ones that pointed to the main Tonalsoft
Encyclopedia were some of the outdated ones i didn't
catch.

> but linking to the corresponding article pretty clearly
> falls under this "What should be linked" criterion:
>
> "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that
> cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to
> copyright issues, amount of detail... or other reasons."
>
> I'll look over them, and if I see any that are
> unquestionably relevant, I'll restore them.

That would be very cool. Thanks.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Keenan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:
>
> On 7/11/07, monz <monz@...> wrote:
> > And BTW, people *have* ignored that license. I've seen
> > my own words lifted from a Tonalsoft page and inserted
> > intact into several Wikipedia articles, without any
> > reference to the Tonalsoft page whatsoever.
>
> That's violating your copyright, so you should remove
> it immediately and report it to
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Copyright
> if it reappears. In fact, if you notice it and *don't* remove it or
> make a complaint, it's kinda like you're implicitely granting
> permission for it to be distributed under the GFDL. Of course, IANAL.

Yeah, i can understand that, and gave it some thought
at the time. But i ended up leaving the text in whenever
i saw it, and it would take some work now to go digging
to find all of it.

>
> > Of course, if the Wikipedia editors are going to delete
> > all links to Tonalsoft anyway, calling it "oft-repeated
> > spam", then what difference does it make? This makes it
> > impossible for me *or anyone else* to add citations to
> > my own work.
>
> Was this more than one editor, or just Wknight94?

I had put links to my "Vienna" webpage on several of
the Wikipedia pages about Mahler symphonies, and they
were deleted as spam by FordPrefect42; this was around
10 November 2005.

The gist of his argument to me was that a webpage
covering a whole century for one city is not specific
to a single musical work. But i think that if he had
*read* my huge page (which prints out to about 188 pages
in dead-tree format, depending on font size), he would
have seen that it has more information about every one
of the Mahler symphonies than is in any of the Wikipedia
pages concerning those works. (OK, now it *is* getting OT)

Then recently Wknight94 removed all the other links.

> Also, there's supposed to be a huge difference between
> a source citation and an external link. If the Tonalsoft
> article was used as a source in writing the Wikipedia
> article, or if it's the only available publication that
> verifies certain claims, it should be cited as a source.

Right, i understand that, which is why i was pissed.
The stuff i've seen is word-for-word text copied and
pasted from my pages into the Wikipedia pages, without
a citation or link.

I've also seen this frequently in the encyclopedia
at dolmetsch.com, but haven't said anything about it
until now.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:
> Hi Carl,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
>
> > Tonalsoft's site is also a commercial site (you are
> > selling something). And by posting links to it in all
> > sorts of inappropriate places, you raised eyebrows and
> > got all the links deleted.
>
> "All sorts of inappropriate places"? Such as?
> I'd also appreciate you saying more about *why* those
> places are inappropriate.

At least one of them was discussed recently on tuning-math.
Lattice or something like that.

> BTW, we aren't selling anything -- Tonescape is currently
> free, and so is everything else our site offers.

See Keenan's note about the licence.

-Carl

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> monz wrote...
>
> > And BTW, people *have* ignored that license. I've seen
> > my own words lifted from a Tonalsoft page and inserted
> > intact into several Wikipedia articles, without any
> > reference to the Tonalsoft page whatsoever.
>
> Though you do give cites, I find it slightly amusing that
> your claiming copyright on the tonalsoft encyclopedia,
> which contains huge swaths of text copied verbatim from
> these lists from authors other than yourelf.

But those are clearly citations, with full credit to
the original author always given in every instance,
along with a link to the original postings in the
Yahoo archive.

I might add that the intention is for every page in the
Encyclopedia to continue to grow by supplementation with
original work by me, especially graphics and musical
examples (in visual and audio form) produced by Tonescape.

When a Tonalsoft Encyclopedia page in its current form
consists almost entirely of a quote from a tuning list,
that should be considered a core around which a much
fuller treatment will grow. But i am making this whole
encyclopedia entirely by myself ...

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:

> The only complaints I see are about certain Wikipedia users, one who
> jumped to conclusions and removed a bunch of external links, and
> others who violated copyright. There are established ways to deal with
> both these problems.

When my links were mindlessly and needlessly butchered, you told me
that even though they didn't contravene any explicit policy they were
against the spirit of Wikiepdia. That pretty much ended my interest in
the Wikipedia tuning project. You Deletionists have *no* idea of how
much you screw things up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tunings%
2C_Temperaments%2C_and_Scales#External_links_to_music

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 7/12/07, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> When my links were mindlessly and needlessly butchered, you told me
> that even though they didn't contravene any explicit policy they were
> against the spirit of Wikiepdia. That pretty much ended my interest in
> the Wikipedia tuning project. You Deletionists have *no* idea of how
> much you screw things up.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tunings%
> 2C_Temperaments%2C_and_Scales#External_links_to_music

Did you ever do what I said and make a simple HTML page that links to
the audio files? How long would that take you, a few minutes?

Don't act so offended unless you've taken the simple steps to cooperate.

Keenan

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

Hi Gene and Keenan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@> wrote:
>
> > Don't act so offended unless you've taken the simple
> > steps to cooperate.
>
> Cooperate with whom--people who violated Wikipedia
> etiquette, and about whom I have no assurance any
> particular thing I do will be found satisfactory?
>
> Since it takes only a few minutes, why don't YOU do
> it? That would have been actual editing, and far more
> constructive than what was done.

I took the liberty of changing the subject line, since
this discussion has only a tangential relationship to
the original subject heading.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

> > > Since it takes only a few minutes, why don't YOU do it?
> > > That would have been actual editing, and far more
> > > constructive than what was done.
> >
> > I would if I could edit your website.
>
> Why should it be on my website? That's more or less waving a
> red flag, isn't it? It was partly links to my website which
> were deleted.

Yeah.

Wouldn't the correct thing be to upload the file to wikipedia?
Like this

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bach_Prelude_and_Fugue_in_A_Minor.ogg

-Carl

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 7/13/07, Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Why should it be on my website? That's more or less waving a
> > red flag, isn't it? It was partly links to my website which
> > were deleted.
>
> Yeah.
>
> Wouldn't the correct thing be to upload the file to wikipedia?
> Like this
>
> http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bach_Prelude_and_Fugue_in_A_Minor.ogg
>
> ?

That's another option, but only if it's in Ogg Vorbis format and
freely distributable. I thought at least some of the songs we were
talking about were complete copyrighted works in MP3 format.

Anyway, I don't see why any of this should upset anyone. Just remain
calm and avoid knee-jerk reactions, and we can work out a solution.

Keenan

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 7/14/07, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> First thing I considered, but it would requiring recoding a lot of
> stuff in vorbis, which would mean getting permission to do that also,
> and then perhaps having someone listen and approve and on and on and
> on...

Right. So, going back to the thing I suggested, why don't you just
create an HTML page that describes and links to the audio files, and
link to that HTML page from Wikipedia? What exactly is the problem
with that?

If other Wikipedians still object (and I don't see why they would),
I'll escalate it.

Keenan

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:

> Right. So, going back to the thing I suggested, why don't you just
> create an HTML page that describes and links to the audio files, and
> link to that HTML page from Wikipedia? What exactly is the problem
> with that?

I don't know, but probably something. One page, or one for each equal
temperament? Isn't this a violation of the spirit of Wikipedia?

And...could you try creating a page you think will fly? I can then
upload it.

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 7/14/07, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> That would have been good advice to follow before trashing the articles
> without prior discussion. As it is, I don't know how to deal with the
> claim that something violates the spirit of Wikipedia. Who am I dealing
> with here? What does it take to satisfy them? I don't know.

Dude, take a chill pill. Could you show me an example of this
"trashing"? "Trashing" usually implies an irreversable change, but
practically everything done to Wikipedia can be undone.

I think you must still be complaining about the last comment I made
(almost a year ago) at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tunings%2C_Temperaments%2C_and_Scales#External_links_to_music
. Please stop harping on that. If you don't want anyone to interpret
Wikipedia guidelines at all, here's a *direct quote*:

"Try to avoid directly linking to any content that requires special
software, or an add-on to a browser. It is always preferred to link to
a page rendered in normal HTML that contains embedded links to the
rich media."

I'll let that speak for itself.

Keenan