alternate v. alternative

I'm still having all sorts of (intermittant) problems
with the list.

By the way, I know this came up recently, but I just noticed
that the name of this list at Mills was the

Alternative Tuning Distribution List

Where "Alternate" came from... must have happenned in the
move to onelist. Mark, can you fix this??

-Carl

Yeah, "alternate", as in first this, then that, has never made any sense, while "alternative" makes all the sense in the world.

Carl Lumma wrote:
> I'm still having all sorts of (intermittant) problems
> with the list.
>
> By the way, I know this came up recently, but I just noticed
> that the name of this list at Mills was the
>
> Alternative Tuning Distribution List
>
> Where "Alternate" came from... must have happenned in the
> move to onelist. Mark, can you fix this??
>
> -Carl
> Does it matter? I like 'alternate'...it doesn't have to mean "switch back and forth" as in "alternating current"...it can mean "substitute choice" as an "an alternate plan"

I just verified that here:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alternate

Daniel Wolf wrote:
> Yeah, "alternate", as in first this, then that, has never made any > sense, while "alternative" makes all the sense in the world

Yes, but, that's not the only meaning of 'alternate'. You can have an 'alternate' plan.

I just posted about this in respnse to Carl.

If used as a verb, it doesn't make sense in our meaning of things, but as an adjective, it does.

Ultimately, though, either way seems fine to me....who really cares?

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:

> Does it matter? I like 'alternate'...it doesn't have to mean "switch > back and forth" as in "alternating current"...it can mean "substitute > choice" as an "an alternate plan"
> > I just verified that here:
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alternate

There's also a usage note under "alternative" saying it shouldn't be confused with "alternate". My Little Oxford Dictionary doesn't give "alternate" as a noun.

It obviously doesn't matter much as nobody's cared for all these years. That usage note is even worrying about the pedantic meaning of "alternative" :-O

Graham

The Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/alternate) says:

"(US) Other; or as common misuse when meaning alternative."

Which is probably correct; nevertheless, such a relevant number of
articles of US origin were published on popular magazines like
Keyboard and Electronic Musician using the wording "alternate tunings"
in the past couple of decades that it became sort of a standard tag
among aficionados.

Examples:

(Jim Aikin's) http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_playing_cracks/
(Scott Wilkinson's) http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_microtuning/

Regards,
Victor

> Yes, but, that's not the only meaning of 'alternate'. You can have an
> 'alternate' plan.
>
> I just posted about this in respnse to Carl.
>
> If used as a verb, it doesn't make sense in our meaning of things, but
> as an adjective, it does.
>
> Ultimately, though, either way seems fine to me....who really cares?

Graham Breed wrote:
> Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
>
> >> Does it matter? I like 'alternate'...it doesn't have to mean "switch >> back and forth" as in "alternating current"...it can mean "substitute >> choice" as an "an alternate plan"
>>
>> I just verified that here:
>> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alternate
>> >
> There's also a usage note under "alternative" saying it > shouldn't be confused with "alternate". My Little Oxford > Dictionary doesn't give "alternate" as a noun.
>
> I was referring to it as an adjective in my example.

-A.

> I just verified that here:
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alternate

Hey, this dictionary isn't free! It's ad-supported.

Here's a free dictionary:

http://www.dict.org

-Carl

I agree with your explanation, but.......

This reminds me that in 1986 when I put out the first editions of "Pitch, Pi, .......",
one of the first letters that I received from readers was a complaint that I had used the word "alternate" tunings instead of "alternative".

I corrected it in later editions.

To use the Scott Wilkinson book as a model of how to do things, seems to me, to be an inappropriate model for tuning perfection.
That particular book contains many typographical, mathematical and content errors and omissions.

I have always felt that it looked as though the Wilkinson book was rushed onto the market to serve an anticipated demand for information on microtuning,
when the Yamaha DX7 Mk II and other mass production rigs with tuning tables first became available.

Do we wish to have to come back to this every few years, as we continue to exhibit our linguistic ignorance?

Late in the day as it may be now, let's get it right, once and for all, and use "alternative"; instead of "alternate".

Charles Lucy lucy@lucytune.com

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On 20 May 2007, at 15:12, victorcerullo wrote:

> The Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/alternate) says:
>
> "(US) Other; or as common misuse when meaning alternative."
>
> Which is probably correct; nevertheless, such a relevant number of
> articles of US origin were published on popular magazines like
> Keyboard and Electronic Musician using the wording "alternate tunings"
> in the past couple of decades that it became sort of a standard tag
> among aficionados.
>
> Examples:
>
> (Jim Aikin's) http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_playing_cracks/
> (Scott Wilkinson's) http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_microtuning/
>
> Regards,
> Victor
>
> > Yes, but, that's not the only meaning of 'alternate'. You can > have an
> > 'alternate' plan.
> >
> > I just posted about this in respnse to Carl.
> >
> > If used as a verb, it doesn't make sense in our meaning of > things, but
> > as an adjective, it does.
> >
> > Ultimately, though, either way seems fine to me....who really cares?
>
>
>

Ok, I've written far to much about this so far, so this is my last....

I notice how I pronounce 'alternate' as in 'tuning' like: all-ter-nit

and 'alternate' as in 'back and forth' as: all-ter-nayte

That should be a clue to any listener, right?

-A.
>
>

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
> Ok, I've written far to much about this so far, so this is my last....
> > > I notice how I pronounce 'alternate' as in 'tuning' like: all-ter-nit
> > and 'alternate' as in 'back and forth' as: all-ter-nayte
> > That should be a clue to any listener, right?

How about "there will be a dance on alternate Sundays"?

Graham

Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
> Graham Breed wrote:
> >>Aaron K. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>Does it matter? I like 'alternate'...it doesn't have to mean "switch >>>back and forth" as in "alternating current"...it can mean "substitute >>>choice" as an "an alternate plan"
>>>
>>>I just verified that here:
>>>http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alternate
>>> >>
>>There's also a usage note under "alternative" saying it >>shouldn't be confused with "alternate". My Little Oxford >>Dictionary doesn't give "alternate" as a noun.
> > I was referring to it as an adjective in my example.

You mean "Serving or used in place of another; substitute"? That's certainly not what I'm here for. What's blackjack a substitute for? And the Little Oxford doesn't give that meaning either. Maybe it's an Americanism as one of the other sources says. There's a fine line between correct and incorrect usage anyway. If enough people get it wrong it becomes the language, and the Little Oxford does say people are getting it wrong.

Graham