Re: minimalism

>I don't have much patience for minimalism, though...

I may not like the ism, if you will, but consider this:

1. Minimal
2. Sectional (Chorus and verse, Rondo) [Almost all songs]
3. Imitation (Cannons and Fugues) [Musical Offering]
4. Repeated Figure/Progression (Passacaglia, Chaconne, Jam) [Siberian Khatru]
5. Theme and Variations [Goldberg Variations]
6. Flow (Smeared variations) [Late String Quartets]
7. Random

It's hard to say just what the minimal device is. Using repetition for
some sort of low-level entrainment? Anywho, I would say that Bach made
extensive use of it. U2 has been passable. Techno (say, Ozric Tentacles).

JI is well-suited for it, since you're going to be hearing long sustained
harmonies, and since you don't really need a large pitch set to make it
work. Michael Harrison's stuff is amazing (From Ancient Worlds makes nice
use of the Theme and Variations technique, BTW). Pat Pagano's stuff turned
me on to a whole new universe of goodness. I think of it as sort of
Dixieland for minimalists.

Then there's Indonesian and Thai music. Indian music too. Lastly, and
everyone will hate me to bits for this (and rightfully so), but I actually
like some Glass (esp. soundtrack for Koyaanisqatsi).

Carl

Come out of the Closet Glass-Lover your not alone.
Check Music in Similar motion,Music in fifths,Music with Changing parts and Music
in twelve parts .

Carl Lumma wrote:

> From: Carl Lumma <clumma@nni.com>
>
> >I don't have much patience for minimalism, though...
>
> I may not like the ism, if you will, but consider this:
>
> 1. Minimal
> 2. Sectional (Chorus and verse, Rondo) [Almost all songs]
> 3. Imitation (Cannons and Fugues) [Musical Offering]
> 4. Repeated Figure/Progression (Passacaglia, Chaconne, Jam) [Siberian Khatru]
> 5. Theme and Variations [Goldberg Variations]
> 6. Flow (Smeared variations) [Late String Quartets]
> 7. Random
>
> It's hard to say just what the minimal device is. Using repetition for
> some sort of low-level entrainment? Anywho, I would say that Bach made
> extensive use of it. U2 has been passable. Techno (say, Ozric Tentacles).
>
> JI is well-suited for it, since you're going to be hearing long sustained
> harmonies, and since you don't really need a large pitch set to make it
> work. Michael Harrison's stuff is amazing (From Ancient Worlds makes nice
> use of the Theme and Variations technique, BTW). Pat Pagano's stuff turned
> me on to a whole new universe of goodness. I think of it as sort of
> Dixieland for minimalists.
>
> Then there's Indonesian and Thai music. Indian music too. Lastly, and
> everyone will hate me to bits for this (and rightfully so), but I actually
> like some Glass (esp. soundtrack for Koyaanisqatsi).
>
> Carl
>
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>>>Perhaps a separate analysis of each voice would be enlightening. Overtones
>>>and difference tones might be less prominent.
>>
>>I'm not sure what you mean. You can't get "each voice" to perform in the
>>same way without the others.
>
>I suppose each voice could be recorded from a separate microphone.

I've thought about this. Maybe surface mics on their throats?

>>I identified all the parts, and the chord is
>>most definitely 2-3-5-7; standard Barbershop voicing.
>
>There is a peak at 579 hz. There's no measure of the relative contributions
>to this peak of the 3rd harmonic of the bass (129 hz) and the 2nd harmonic
>of the baritone (193 hz). This may or may not be useful to know.

I'm not sure what you mean, could you explain?

>The spectrogram is certainly informative. I appreciate being able to see the
>analysis. Like most research, in answering one question, it asks others.

Glad you enjoyed it. :~)

Carl

Lately, the term minimalism has been popping up quite a bit, and
it's got me thinking...although I've heard some minimalist music, and
kind of know what it sounds like, can someone who is really into that
movement take a stab at defining it? Is Young the first guy to do it?
Are there definite goals that a minimalist composer is aiming for? Or,
does it vary from person to person? Do minimalists agree on what
minimalism is? I am really serious about this, as I have never seen
anyone talk about this style in depth...thanks...Hstick

Well Neil
There are several books describing Minimalism in great depth.
1 is Edward Stricklands ,minimalism -origins which traces it's roots to the
action/process painting of heavies like Rauschenberg/Newman/Stella etc.
2. America Minmal Music by Wim Mertens is concise and informative including
early scores etc.
Minamalism is not a name chosen by it's progenators and it's credit as a
moniker is debated.
Musique repetitive is what Reich, preferred or Process music.
Clearly there is even debate regarding the first minimal piece. Cage's 4'33
is certainly a very minimal piece.
Early works by Feldman may qualify as well.
But traditionally it is LaMonte Young's Trio for strings(1958) or For
Brass(1957) which are considered the first realized minimal pieces.
There has also been some debate regarding ole' Maury Ravel's Bolero as a
qualifying minimal work.
I personally think LY is the first true "minimalist" if you must,though I do
not know if he would call himself one. His music may be p[ercieved on a
surface level as minimal but the scope of his music is exactly what LY/MZ
have called it --eternal--
I do not consider myself a minimalist but folks have called my music
minimal.
Minimal music ususally has a small,focused,specific amount of feautures
explored in very deep ways employing sustained tones,repetition,phase and
symmetric structure.
What it has been criticised for is it's lack of contrasts,but as Lamonte
Young said,
"Contrast is for people who can't write music"
Pat Pagano

Neil Haverstick wrote:

> From: Neil Haverstick <stick@uswest.net>
>
> Lately, the term minimalism has been popping up quite a bit, and
> it's got me thinking...although I've heard some minimalist music, and
> kind of know what it sounds like, can someone who is really into that
> movement take a stab at defining it? Is Young the first guy to do it?
> Are there definite goals that a minimalist composer is aiming for? Or,
> does it vary from person to person? Do minimalists agree on what
> minimalism is? I am really serious about this, as I have never seen
> anyone talk about this style in depth...thanks...Hstick
>
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>From: Neil Haverstick <stick@uswest.net>
>although I've heard some minimalist music, and
>kind of know what it sounds like, can someone who is really into that
>movement take a stab at defining it? Is Young the first guy to do it?
>Are there definite goals that a minimalist composer is aiming for? Or,
>does it vary from person to person? Do minimalists agree on what
>minimalism is?

While Pat's references are good, I would like to take a stab at Neil's
questions. To me, minimalism implies a lot more than just repetition, as
some people seem to think. Instead, when repetition and other techniques
that increase the musical redundancy force the listener to stop listening
for rhetorical form and linear logic, the listening experience can move to
another sort of plane that I often liken to meditation. As meditation is an
active, not a passive activity, I think those who characterize this way of
listening as "zoning out" or the works as "hypnotic" are being unfair.

In addition to repetition, tonality is crucial, I think, because then the
tones are all related through hierarchical structure. This effect is
heightened through the use of JI, as in the works of Young and Riley. As
Meyer-Eppler and others have pointed out, atonality and serialism increase
the information flow, which is what the minimalists sought to, well,
minimize. The same is true of meter, when there is one, the beats are
related by a steady pulse.

Thus I have a problem including Feldman, Satie, Cage, and even Young's Trio
under the minimalist umbrella. That said, like all artistic labels, Neil,
this one is ultimately subjective. In the narrowest sense, minimalism
includes the works done by composers like Young, Riley, Reich, Glass,
Conrad, Gibson, and so on in the period from about 1963 through the
mid-70s.

After this time, many of these composers (with the notable exception of
Young) continued to use many of the minimalist techniques but in a much
richer vocabulary. Reich's works continue to use many minimal techniques,
but are hardly the stark process pieces of the 1960s. Riley's string
quartets are almost prose-like in their irregular changes, and Glass, well,
is Glass.

Nevertheless, many people continue to associate them with the label
"minimalism," the same way that Picasso was always a "cubist," I suppose.
If one understands that the term is no longer used in its narrow and most
descriptive sense, I suppose it's as useful as many artistic labels in that
these composers share the inheritance of certain techniques and
characteristics from the bygone days of minimalist purity.

One reviewer even referred to the pieces on my CD as "hyper-minimalist,"
which really surprised me, even though I gratefully acknowledge the
influence of composers like Riley and Reich. The pieces are certainly not
minimalist in the narrow sense, let alone "hyper-minimalist," but you can
see how terms like this tend to expand over time.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you Bill for filling out the picture. My explanation was a minimal,..hah
quick explanation and benefits from your depth.
We might have to include Andriessen and Barb Benary in the mix.
I do like the Satie point though
I think Satie might pre-date Ambient more but some pieces in my book are
definitely minimal. It is a nice aside in LYs Trio the first pitch is held for
4'33 ....
Thanks for the wonderful expansion
Now we're cooking with gas
P

Bill Alves wrote:

> From: alves@orion.ac.hmc.edu (Bill Alves)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
> ^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
> ^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
> ^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
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> can someone who is really into that movement take a stab at defining it?
> ... Are there definite goals that a minimalist composer is aiming for?

I don't claim to be "really into it", nor an expert on it, and what I'll
describe below may be just one possible manifestation of the concept.

Minimalist music slowly evolves over time, making only very small
changes at any one time. The leader of the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet
described it nicely: He said that listening to minimalist music is
somewhat like watching a fire in a fire place.

Some of the music that Rod Poole played at the El Paso shindig a while
back, at which you also performed, would probably go down as minimalist.
It consisted of repeated, fast arpeggios, and every few bars he'd change
one note of the arpeggio. So over the course of seconds it changes only
slightly, but over the course of minutes it changes almost completely.

> Is Young the first guy to do it?

I doubt it.

At 01:50 PM 2/17/99 +0000, you wrote:
>From: Gary Morrison <mr88cet@texas.net>
> I don't claim to be "really into it", nor an expert on it, and what I'll
>describe below may be just one possible manifestation of the concept.
> Minimalist music slowly evolves over time, making only very small
>changes at any one time. The leader of the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet
>described it nicely: He said that listening to minimalist music is
>somewhat like watching a fire in a fire place.
>
A lot of Minimilism music reminds me of screen savers... I might have
mentioned this before, but when I first played a LaMonte Young CD in my
apartment, a neighbor rang my doorbell because she thought it was my smoke
alarm.
-jan

jan
i would gladly take the smoke alarm cd off your hands for you
and yes screen savers are the most interesting thing done with computers to date

Pat

jan gyn wrote:

> From: jan gyn <jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us>
>
> At 01:50 PM 2/17/99 +0000, you wrote:
> >From: Gary Morrison <mr88cet@texas.net>
> > I don't claim to be "really into it", nor an expert on it, and what I'll
> >describe below may be just one possible manifestation of the concept.
> > Minimalist music slowly evolves over time, making only very small
> >changes at any one time. The leader of the Los Angeles Guitar Quartet
> >described it nicely: He said that listening to minimalist music is
> >somewhat like watching a fire in a fire place.
> >
> A lot of Minimilism music reminds me of screen savers... I might have
> mentioned this before, but when I first played a LaMonte Young CD in my
> apartment, a neighbor rang my doorbell because she thought it was my smoke
> alarm.
> -jan
>
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> I might have
> mentioned this before, but when I first played a LaMonte Young CD in my
> apartment, a neighbor rang my doorbell because she thought it was my smoke
> alarm.

That's ... uh ... interesting...