Re: In Stiller Nacht [TD449.16]

Hey John et al,

On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:19:42 -0700, John A. deLaubenfels <jadl@idcomm.com>
wrote:
>
>[Daniel Wolf, TD 441.7:]
>>After the renaissance some form of adaptive JI seems only to become
>>current again with the emergence of chamber music without continuo,
>>especially the string quartet and quintet (the latter being Mozart's
>>prefered genre). Unaccompanied vocal music will wait even longer to
>>re-emerge, and indeed becomes especially problematic to tune (try, for
>>example, Brahm's _In stiller Nacht_).
>
>I did, thanks to Mark Nowitzky, TD 447.4, and I took that "good ol'
>equal-tempered MIDI format" and ran it through the wringer, and...
>it sure sounds vivid! Daniel, the subtleties of tuning choices that
>you discuss in TD 442.5 aren't understood by the program, so (and
>perhaps for other reasons as well) you may find the sound far from
>ideal, but I'd be interested in your reaction (luckily, the piece is
>short!).
>
>As an alternative to the piano, I also used a string voice and a
>french horn voice, each in separate files. All this in one 15K zip:
>
>http://www.idcomm.com/personal/jadl/bra-stil.zip
>

Looks like a fun basement project you got going there... I liked the
french horn files the best!

I've got some feedback/questions/comments on the tunings you chose for the
Brahms piece:

1) I viewed your 5-Limit Horn MIDI file (bra-stil-hrnz5.mid) under an
editor, and saw a lot more pitch wheel values than I expected to see. How
come the tonic (key) of the piece, Eb, drifts around so much? I understand
the need for more remote tones to drift, such as F or C in this piece. But
why does your Adaptive JI algorithm move ALL the notes on EVERY chord change?

2) The second chord in the piece is Ab Cb Eb F (an Ab minor triad with an
added sixth). Here's how you tuned it (in bra-stil-hrnz5.mid), and how I
would tune it:

your choice my choice
----------- -----------
NNN* ratio NNN* ratio
---- ----- ---- -----
4F 10/9 4F 10/9
5Eb 1/1 5Eb 1/1
5Cb 64/81 6Cb 4/5
5Ab 2/3 5Ab 2/3

*where NNN = Nowitzkian Note Names (per
<http://www.pacificnet.net/~nowitzky/justint/nnn.htm>)

Why do you choose the more Pythagorean tuning for the Cb, instead of opting
for the simpler 4/5 ratio? Is the presense of the 4F = 10/9 affecting your
choice? Or would you also tune a vanilla minor triad that way too?

3) Around the fifth measure of the piece, there's a Bbdom7 chord (Bb Ab D
F). Here's how you tuned it in your 7-Limit Horn sample (bra-stil-hrnz7.mid):

note NNN ratio
---- --- -----
F 5F 9/8
D 4D 15/8
Ab n/a 21/16
Bb 5Bb 3/2

I suppose that if I ever used septimal harmony (7-Limit tunings), maybe I'd
tune it the same way you did. I was surprised as I listened and compared
this to the 5-Limit tuning. The 7-Limit version sounded more "fluttery".
(By "fluttery", I mean I heard rapid beats; it felt dissonant.) I would've
thought that the 7-Limit tuning would be more smooth.

So once again I question my own theory about dominant seventh chords
<http://www.pacificnet.net/~nowitzky/justint/dom7.htm>. Pat Missin's
harmonica samples, discussed at the bottom of that web page, had just the
opposite effect.

--Mark

+------------------------------------------------------+
| Mark Nowitzky |
| email: nowitzky@alum.mit.edu AIM: Nowitzky |
| www: http://www.pacificnet.net/~nowitzky |
| "If you haven't visited Mark Nowitzky's home |
| page recently, you haven't missed much..." |
+------------------------------------------------------+
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