Re: [tuning] Digest Number 4365 ("tedious" instructions)

I've been away, and am catching up....

> Lehman's temperament is wonderful, yet much more complicated to set.
> > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/practical.html
> > I see Brad's directions are a bit tedious. Yes, yours is easier to
> set, but is still not a well temperament.

Um....tedious? "Complicated?"

For experienced harpsichord tuners, it's easy to set all the bearing notes by ear in 3-4 minutes, from a single tuning fork; and then the rest of the harpsichord's 61 notes by octaves in the remaining 7-10 minutes. I do this several times a week, literally hundreds of times in a year. This temperament is remarkably easy and straightforward, after doing it a couple of times.

It's just difficult to describe TO NOVICES and other non-harpsichord-tuners, using only words. Much easier to demonstrate and do, than to describe. I did it onstage as a demo just a couple of weeks ago, on the 14th, in California....

Sometime try describing -- only in words and to people who've never tried it before -- the proper way to fold an origami frog, or the proper way to tie a necktie. :)

Also note that I've got a bunch of different instructions on my web site, all yielding the same result but coming at it from different conceptual strategies. And, the one at the page cited above is the one that I wrote out for expert tuners who already have years of experience listening for the right types of things!

Well, carry on.

Brad Lehman
http://www.larips.com

Brad,

by "more complicated" i did not intend to imply
"complicated", just a matter of relativity.

rather i was responding to the assertion that your
temperament was better, which i shall not dispute, and
easier to set.

other than pythagorean, which does not begin to
approach a well temperament, i made the assertion that
my temperament was the easiest to set, and i believe
that that can be proved theoretically, although the
tuning is not considered to be a well temperament by
the majority, if not all, on the tuning list, yet i
consider it to be atleast a "near well temperament"

and i also believe that any music that sounds good in
12ET will sound good in the new temperament, and, to
date, not a single instance to the contrary has been
brought forth.

the scale is derived in the following manner

starting from C

3/2 3/2 5/4 3/2 3/2 3/2

starting from C again, and retuning F# when it is
arrived at

4/3 4/3 8/5 4/3 4/3 4/3

at the very least it would make a good starting point
for a well temperament, however, i have played through
both books of the WTC, using software, and everything
sounds fine to my ear.

i would appreciate it if you could evaluate it for me,
by ear, and not by theory.

the ratios are as follows

1/1

135/128

9/8

1215/1024

512/405

4/3

64/45

3/2

405/256

2048/1215

16/9

256/135

2/1

the F#-C# interval, while certainly not optimal by
theoretical standards, does not howl like a wolf, to
any extent whatsoever.

i have only been able to evaluate the tuning by using
software, so it would be wonderful if someone would
tune a harpsichord and see if the theoretical
considerations are as overriding as they appear.

thanks,

rt

--- Brad Lehman <bpl@umich.edu> wrote:

> I've been away, and am catching up....
>
> > Lehman's temperament is wonderful, yet much
> more complicated to set.
> >
> >
>
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/practical.html
> >
> > I see Brad's directions are a bit tedious.
> Yes, yours is easier to
> > set, but is still not a well temperament.
>
> Um....tedious? "Complicated?"
>
> For experienced harpsichord tuners, it's easy to set
> all the bearing
> notes by ear in 3-4 minutes, from a single tuning
> fork; and then the
> rest of the harpsichord's 61 notes by octaves in the
> remaining 7-10
> minutes. I do this several times a week, literally
> hundreds of times in
> a year. This temperament is remarkably easy and
> straightforward, after
> doing it a couple of times.
>
> It's just difficult to describe TO NOVICES and other
>
> non-harpsichord-tuners, using only words. Much
> easier to demonstrate
> and do, than to describe. I did it onstage as a
> demo just a couple of
> weeks ago, on the 14th, in California....
>
> Sometime try describing -- only in words and to
> people who've never
> tried it before -- the proper way to fold an origami
> frog, or the proper
> way to tie a necktie. :)
>
> Also note that I've got a bunch of different
> instructions on my web
> site, all yielding the same result but coming at it
> from different
> conceptual strategies. And, the one at the page
> cited above is the one
> that I wrote out for expert tuners who already have
> years of experience
> listening for the right types of things!
>
> Well, carry on.
>
>
> Brad Lehman
> http://www.larips.com
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

He is a bit touchy it seems. Oh well, so much for me being a novice.

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raintree Goldbach" <thefractalgourmet@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 30 Mart 2007 Cuma 5:20
Subject: Re: [tuning] Digest Number 4365 ("tedious" instructions)

> Brad,
>
> by "more complicated" i did not intend to imply
> "complicated", just a matter of relativity.
>
> rather i was responding to the assertion that your
> temperament was better, which i shall not dispute, and
> easier to set.
>
> other than pythagorean, which does not begin to
> approach a well temperament, i made the assertion that
> my temperament was the easiest to set, and i believe
> that that can be proved theoretically, although the
> tuning is not considered to be a well temperament by
> the majority, if not all, on the tuning list, yet i
> consider it to be atleast a "near well temperament"
>
> and i also believe that any music that sounds good in
> 12ET will sound good in the new temperament, and, to
> date, not a single instance to the contrary has been
> brought forth.
>
> the scale is derived in the following manner
>
> starting from C
>
> 3/2 3/2 5/4 3/2 3/2 3/2
>
> starting from C again, and retuning F# when it is
> arrived at
>
> 4/3 4/3 8/5 4/3 4/3 4/3
>
> at the very least it would make a good starting point
> for a well temperament, however, i have played through
> both books of the WTC, using software, and everything
> sounds fine to my ear.
>
> i would appreciate it if you could evaluate it for me,
> by ear, and not by theory.
>
> the ratios are as follows
>
> 1/1
>
> 135/128
>
> 9/8
>
> 1215/1024
>
> 512/405
>
> 4/3
>
> 64/45
>
> 3/2
>
> 405/256
>
> 2048/1215
>
> 16/9
>
> 256/135
>
> 2/1
>
> the F#-C# interval, while certainly not optimal by
> theoretical standards, does not howl like a wolf, to
> any extent whatsoever.
>
> i have only been able to evaluate the tuning by using
> software, so it would be wonderful if someone would
> tune a harpsichord and see if the theoretical
> considerations are as overriding as they appear.
>
> thanks,
>
> rt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Brad Lehman <bpl@umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > I've been away, and am catching up....
> >
> > > Lehman's temperament is wonderful, yet much
> > more complicated to set.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/practical.html
> > >
> > > I see Brad's directions are a bit tedious.
> > Yes, yours is easier to
> > > set, but is still not a well temperament.
> >
> > Um....tedious? "Complicated?"
> >
> > For experienced harpsichord tuners, it's easy to set
> > all the bearing
> > notes by ear in 3-4 minutes, from a single tuning
> > fork; and then the
> > rest of the harpsichord's 61 notes by octaves in the
> > remaining 7-10
> > minutes. I do this several times a week, literally
> > hundreds of times in
> > a year. This temperament is remarkably easy and
> > straightforward, after
> > doing it a couple of times.
> >
> > It's just difficult to describe TO NOVICES and other
> >
> > non-harpsichord-tuners, using only words. Much
> > easier to demonstrate
> > and do, than to describe. I did it onstage as a
> > demo just a couple of
> > weeks ago, on the 14th, in California....
> >
> > Sometime try describing -- only in words and to
> > people who've never
> > tried it before -- the proper way to fold an origami
> > frog, or the proper
> > way to tie a necktie. :)
> >
> > Also note that I've got a bunch of different
> > instructions on my web
> > site, all yielding the same result but coming at it
> > from different
> > conceptual strategies. And, the one at the page
> > cited above is the one
> > that I wrote out for expert tuners who already have
> > years of experience
> > listening for the right types of things!
> >
> > Well, carry on.
> >
> >
> > Brad Lehman
> > http://www.larips.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
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> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

?

--- Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com> wrote:

> He is a bit touchy it seems. Oh well, so much for me
> being a novice.
>
> Oz.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raintree Goldbach"
> <thefractalgourmet@yahoo.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 30 Mart 2007 Cuma 5:20
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Digest Number 4365 ("tedious"
> instructions)
>
>
> > Brad,
> >
> > by "more complicated" i did not intend to imply
> > "complicated", just a matter of relativity.
> >
> > rather i was responding to the assertion that your
> > temperament was better, which i shall not dispute,
> and
> > easier to set.
> >
> > other than pythagorean, which does not begin to
> > approach a well temperament, i made the assertion
> that
> > my temperament was the easiest to set, and i
> believe
> > that that can be proved theoretically, although
> the
> > tuning is not considered to be a well temperament
> by
> > the majority, if not all, on the tuning list, yet
> i
> > consider it to be atleast a "near well
> temperament"
> >
> > and i also believe that any music that sounds good
> in
> > 12ET will sound good in the new temperament, and,
> to
> > date, not a single instance to the contrary has
> been
> > brought forth.
> >
> > the scale is derived in the following manner
> >
> > starting from C
> >
> > 3/2 3/2 5/4 3/2 3/2 3/2
> >
> > starting from C again, and retuning F# when it is
> > arrived at
> >
> > 4/3 4/3 8/5 4/3 4/3 4/3
> >
> > at the very least it would make a good starting
> point
> > for a well temperament, however, i have played
> through
> > both books of the WTC, using software, and
> everything
> > sounds fine to my ear.
> >
> > i would appreciate it if you could evaluate it for
> me,
> > by ear, and not by theory.
> >
> > the ratios are as follows
> >
> > 1/1
> >
> > 135/128
> >
> > 9/8
> >
> > 1215/1024
> >
> > 512/405
> >
> > 4/3
> >
> > 64/45
> >
> > 3/2
> >
> > 405/256
> >
> > 2048/1215
> >
> > 16/9
> >
> > 256/135
> >
> > 2/1
> >
> > the F#-C# interval, while certainly not optimal by
> > theoretical standards, does not howl like a wolf,
> to
> > any extent whatsoever.
> >
> > i have only been able to evaluate the tuning by
> using
> > software, so it would be wonderful if someone
> would
> > tune a harpsichord and see if the theoretical
> > considerations are as overriding as they appear.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > rt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Brad Lehman <bpl@umich.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > I've been away, and am catching up....
> > >
> > > > Lehman's temperament is wonderful, yet
> much
> > > more complicated to set.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/practical.html
> > > >
> > > > I see Brad's directions are a bit tedious.
> > > Yes, yours is easier to
> > > > set, but is still not a well temperament.
> > >
> > > Um....tedious? "Complicated?"
> > >
> > > For experienced harpsichord tuners, it's easy to
> set
> > > all the bearing
> > > notes by ear in 3-4 minutes, from a single
> tuning
> > > fork; and then the
> > > rest of the harpsichord's 61 notes by octaves in
> the
> > > remaining 7-10
> > > minutes. I do this several times a week,
> literally
> > > hundreds of times in
> > > a year. This temperament is remarkably easy and
> > > straightforward, after
> > > doing it a couple of times.
> > >
> > > It's just difficult to describe TO NOVICES and
> other
> > >
> > > non-harpsichord-tuners, using only words. Much
> > > easier to demonstrate
> > > and do, than to describe. I did it onstage as a
> > > demo just a couple of
> > > weeks ago, on the 14th, in California....
> > >
> > > Sometime try describing -- only in words and to
> > > people who've never
> > > tried it before -- the proper way to fold an
> origami
> > > frog, or the proper
> > > way to tie a necktie. :)
> > >
> > > Also note that I've got a bunch of different
> > > instructions on my web
> > > site, all yielding the same result but coming at
> it
> > > from different
> > > conceptual strategies. And, the one at the page
> > > cited above is the one
> > > that I wrote out for expert tuners who already
> have
> > > years of experience
> > > listening for the right types of things!
> > >
> > > Well, carry on.
> > >
> > >
> > > Brad Lehman
> > > http://www.larips.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
> hotels
> > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
> your fit.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> >
> >
> > You can configure your subscription by sending an
> empty email to one
> > of these addresses (from the address at which you
> receive the list):
> > tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the
> tuning group.
> > tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the
> group.
> > tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail
> from the group.
> > tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to
> send daily digests.
> > tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to
> send individual emails.
> > tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general
> help information.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an
> empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you
> receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning
> group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the
> group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from
> the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send
> daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send
> individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help
> information.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097