"in like FLYNN" (was Re: more thoughts about the term 'microtonal')

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Aaron,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@> wrote:
> > you mean 'in like Flynn'--referring to Errol Flynn, who was a ladies'
> > man....
>
> No, like James Coburn (Flint), a completely underrated contestant in
> the coolest spy category of life:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Like_Flint

Nope:
read this, esp. the last paragraph.
(from http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-inl1.htm)
[Q] From Gustavo Bruckner: "What is the derivation of in like Flynn?"

[A] Reference books almost universally assert that this set phrase, an
American expression meaning to be successful emphatically or quickly,
especially in regard to sexual seduction, refers to the
Australian-born actor Errol Flynn. His drinking, drug-taking and
sexual exploits were renowned, even for Hollywood, but the phrase is
said to have been coined following his acquittal in February 1943 for
the statutory rape of a teenage girl. This seems to be supported by
the date of the first example recorded, in American Speech in December
1946, which cited a 1945 use in the sense of something being done easily.

The trouble with this explanation is that examples of obviously
related expressions have now turned up from dates before Flynn's
trial. Barry Popik of the American Dialect Society found an example
from 1940, as well as this from the sports section of the San
Francisco Examiner of 8 February 1942: "Answer these questions
correctly and your name is Flynn, meaning you're in, provided you have
two left feet and the written consent of your parents". To judge from
a newspaper reference he turned up from early 1943, the phrase could
by then also be shortened to I'm Flynn, meaning "I'm in".

It's suggested by some writers that the phrase really originated with
another Flynn, Edward J Flynn — "Boss" Flynn — a campaign manager for
the Democratic party during FDR's presidency. Flynn's machine in the
South Bronx in New York was so successful at winning elections that
his candidates seemed to get into office automatically.

The existence of the examples found by Mr Popik certainly suggest the
expression was at first unconnected with Errol Flynn, but that it
shifted its association when he became such a notorious figure. Since
then, it has altered again, because in 1967 a film, In Like Flint, a
spy spoof starring James Coburn, took its title by wordplay from the
older expression, and in turn caused many people to think that the
phrase was really in like Flint.

(aaron again) there's also this tidbit:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_156.html

> And I'm with you, man: microtonal. I'm sick to f***ing death of the
> plethora of terms. People _do_ get the picture, so let's just use it.
> Anything else is tweezer hockey crap.

Wow, Jon. This is really aggressive for you...let's agree without
causing rancor from the dissent, ok?

-A.

Aaron,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...> wrote:
> Nope:
> read this, esp. the last paragraph.
> (from http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-inl1.htm)
> [Q] From Gustavo Bruckner:

One must question a person being named Gustavo Bruckner. :) That said,
and with no evidence to the contrary (though their anecdotal accounts
are weak at best), I concede that it could well have been an older phrase.

> Wow, Jon. This is really aggressive for you...let's agree without
> causing rancor from the dissent, ok?

Didn't mean it to be overly aggressive. Just late at night sincerity,
bearing in mind that people write pages and pages here about these
topics, and I figured two concise sentences, with colorful yet
unambiguous opinionating, would be ok. Besides, I hardly read this
list anymore, and these posting of the last couple days are about the
only ones for a long time.

Not to mention the fact that I doubt anyone cares what I think! :)

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Aaron,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@> wrote:
> > Nope:
> > read this, esp. the last paragraph.
> > (from http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-inl1.htm)
> > [Q] From Gustavo Bruckner:
>
> One must question a person being named Gustavo Bruckner. :) That said,
> and with no evidence to the contrary (though their anecdotal accounts
> are weak at best), I concede that it could well have been an older
phrase.

Plus, you have this at the bottom of the page you cited:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Like_Flint
(from the 'Trivia' section of that page):

"The title is a parody of the phrase "In like Flynn", referring to
Errol Flynn's reputation as a womanizer (which he shares with Flint)."

-A.