Microtuner VST

I have managed to make this partially work in Cubase SX 1 as well as VST 5:

http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html
http://www.dontcrack.com/freeware/downloads.php/id/3846/software/MidiBag/

But I couldn't yet succeed in importing a scala file so as to microtune a
sampled sound, let alone a Yamaha SW1000XG patch.

Can someone tell me how I can set up 80 MOS 159-tET in either Cubase using
Microtuner VST? That is to say, how can I map every pitch of my tuning to
all the keys of the midi keyboard as FTS manages to do?

Cordially,
Oz.

I could not get the Microtuner to work at all, not once. The only
reliable way at this point, as far as I know, is to have a virtual
instrument that accepts .scl files directly. The VSTi "Oblivion" is
a good sampler for this. I could never get VSampler to work
with .scl correctly.

ZynAddSubFX is truly fantastic, but with a poor interface. You must
go to "advanced interface" to access the place where you load .scl
and .kbm files.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> I have managed to make this partially work in Cubase SX 1 as well
as VST 5:
>
> http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html
>
http://www.dontcrack.com/freeware/downloads.php/id/3846/software/Midi
Bag/
>
> But I couldn't yet succeed in importing a scala file so as to
microtune a
> sampled sound, let alone a Yamaha SW1000XG patch.
>
> Can someone tell me how I can set up 80 MOS 159-tET in either
Cubase using
> Microtuner VST? That is to say, how can I map every pitch of my
tuning to
> all the keys of the midi keyboard as FTS manages to do?
>
> Cordially,
> Oz.
>

Ozan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> Can someone tell me how I can set up 80 MOS 159-tET in either Cubase
using
> Microtuner VST? That is to say, how can I map every pitch of my
tuning to
> all the keys of the midi keyboard as FTS manages to do?

Don't waste your time on Microtuner VST. As much as I appreciate
Toby's tools, this one has *never* worked properly, and it seems the
further you get from 12 pitches per octave, the more spectacularly it
fails. I gave up after a number of attempts, and it has never been
fixed AFAIK.

Cheers,
Jon

Is Oblivion downloadable for free?

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Bobro" <misterbobro@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 1:31
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> I could not get the Microtuner to work at all, not once. The only
> reliable way at this point, as far as I know, is to have a virtual
> instrument that accepts .scl files directly. The VSTi "Oblivion" is
> a good sampler for this. I could never get VSampler to work
> with .scl correctly.
>
> ZynAddSubFX is truly fantastic, but with a poor interface. You must
> go to "advanced interface" to access the place where you load .scl
> and .kbm files.
>
>

I see. But what other VST plug-in is there?

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@cox.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 2:33
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Ozan,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > Can someone tell me how I can set up 80 MOS 159-tET in either Cubase
> using
> > Microtuner VST? That is to say, how can I map every pitch of my
> tuning to
> > all the keys of the midi keyboard as FTS manages to do?
>
> Don't waste your time on Microtuner VST. As much as I appreciate
> Toby's tools, this one has *never* worked properly, and it seems the
> further you get from 12 pitches per octave, the more spectacularly it
> fails. I gave up after a number of attempts, and it has never been
> fixed AFAIK.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

Ozan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> I see. But what other VST plug-in is there?

Depends on what you want to do, so I have to ask questions:

1. Are you trying to retune hardware synths/samplers, or software
instruments that are written for 12tet?

2. Is it absolutely necessary for any items to be free, or can you
afford to invest some money into the project?

3. Am correct in assuming you are using a PC OS (as opposed to Mac or
*nix)?

If I know that, I might be able to help.

Cheers,
Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@cox.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 5:02
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Ozan,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > I see. But what other VST plug-in is there?
>
> Depends on what you want to do, so I have to ask questions:
>
> 1. Are you trying to retune hardware synths/samplers, or software
> instruments that are written for 12tet?
>

Both actually. I have the option to load sounds and instruments unto soft
samplers like halion as well as tap into the resources of my SW1000XG. All
that matters is tuning them. Scala file compatibility is a must. Can
Zynaddsubfx do this? I couldn't find the VST plugin version of it anywhere.

> 2. Is it absolutely necessary for any items to be free, or can you
> afford to invest some money into the project?
>

Not if I can help it at this stage.

> 3. Am correct in assuming you are using a PC OS (as opposed to Mac or
> *nix)?
>

I am burdened with Win ME, and cannot do anything about it unless I buy a
Macbook Pro. I simply want to experiment in microtonal recording before I
make the move. That is meant to avoid disillusionment with any new
hardware/software that doesn't measure up to my expectations.

> If I know that, I might be able to help.
>

Thank you. I would like to know the minimal music studio gear optimized to
work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic microtonal music
without having to subject myself to the mercies of any orchestra or
executant for crying out loud.

In particular, I would desire full Sagittal-support in a composing tool
(Sibelius, Finale, Tonescape?) that actually produces the pitches for the
microtones inscribed on the sheet, and with multitimbral polyphony at that.

Just one score for both reading and playing it right... how about that?

And what about bending each note individually with maximum possible compass
and pitch resolution?

Also, true sounds, only true sounds... and FX!

Lots of presets and libraries too...

If only I could have that velocity sensitive multi-touch Laptop LCD MIDI
Keyboard to boot!

> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

Cordially,
Oz.

Hi,

I'll be brief, because I'm not sure how serious you are about this. I
*will* say that it would really help if we/you focus on the task at
hand, not to immediately work on the "Ultimate" solution, as that can
come in time (and will NOT be free).

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> Both actually. I have the option to load sounds and instruments unto
soft
> samplers like halion as well as tap into the resources of my
SW1000XG. All
> that matters is tuning them.

Yes, but working with both hard/ and software instruments at the same
time can make the task much more difficult. It would be great, since
you are just wanting to get a start on all this, to make the smallest
subset of the parts work just the way you want, and then try to add
others.

> Scala file compatibility is a must. Can Zynaddsubfx do this?

I am not completely familiar with Zyn, but Aaron speaks highly of it.
I believe it reads Scala files, but I don't believe it will retune
other instruments - it is just an instrument itself.

> I couldn't find the VST plugin version of it anywhere.

Um, it *is* a VST instrument. But it is an instrument, not an effect.
For instance, Toby's Microtuner is an effect, but his sample player
Helios is an instrument. The effects work on the data and/or audio stream.

> Not if I can help it at this stage.

Well, that does hamper you quite a bit. One of the first things I
would do would be to get a good VST instrument with native support for
Scala (either .scl or .tun files), but I don't believe there are any
(or many) free ones.

> I am burdened with Win ME, and cannot do anything about it unless I
buy a
> Macbook Pro.

That doesn't make any sense to me, so I can't help there. I am also
not a current Mac OS user, so if you *do* end up with the MacBook, I
won't be of any use. I would urge you already to *not* think about
trying to run music/audio apps in Bootcamp (or whatever other bootable
PC situation is in use), as all the reports I've seen suggest that it
just isn't practical. We are still at the state where audio
applications, especially recording and softsynth type scenarios, tend
to tax the hardware and OS pretty hard. It is best to stay native,
i.e. use a current Mac OS application on a Mac platform.

> I simply want to experiment in microtonal recording before I
> make the move. That is meant to avoid disillusionment with any new
> hardware/software that doesn't measure up to my expectations.

Right, well understood. But you need to be aware that your
expectations may also be tied into how robust a system (both hardware
and software) you will be using. You could actually go out and
purchase the very best DAW software and a bunch of great VST
instruments, and if you are running on a way underpowered computer
with an old OS, you can just forget it.

For your situation, you just need to get one basic instrument that
fills your tuning needs, a basic audio/VST sequencer, and you can
start experimenting. If you start getting very specific about
instrumental sounds, if you want massive orchestral polyphony, if you
want track upon track of audio with a lot of processing effects on
them to give you some pseudo-realistic presentation... well, you are
going to have to invest in a robust hardware and software system.

> Thank you. I would like to know the minimal music studio gear
optimized to
> work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic microtonal music
> without having to subject myself to the mercies of any orchestra or
> executant for crying out loud.

Well, someone else will have to jump in. And "realistic" is a very
difficult term - I probably know what you mean, but there have been
enough fights around here about what sounds "realistic" that I
wouldn't even go there again (myself).

> In particular, I would desire full Sagittal-support in a composing tool
> (Sibelius, Finale, Tonescape?)

You can forget that immediately. No one has come up with support for
it, and unless either George or Dave (who I don't believe even use
those programs) can do it, or someone near them, no company is going
to put in support for a totally unknown notation.

> Just one score for both reading and playing it right... how about that?

Sounds good to me. Unfortunately, that situation is termed variously
as "heaven", "nirvana", or some such suitable term. There are some
ways of doing it that approach the ultimate *within 12tet*, but a
notational panacea for microtonality, both in look and sound, hasn't
arrived yet. Also, be aware that it is very common to need two
versions: to get something to look right in Finale, it might not sound
the way you want; to get it to sound the way you want, you frequently
end up using notational devices that don't please the eye. Most people
producing serious recordings tend to separate the two tasks, and
refine the recording in a dedicated DAW, and then refine the score in
the notation program.

> And what about bending each note individually with maximum possible
compass
> and pitch resolution?

Yuck. Riddled with problems, and a path I'll never go down. You'll
_never_ get a full orchestral pallette with full polyphony using
pitchbends.

> Also, true sounds, only true sounds... and FX!
>
> Lots of presets and libraries too...
>
> If only I could have that velocity sensitive multi-touch Laptop LCD MIDI
> Keyboard to boot!

Well, it is clear that you realize that you are asking for the moon
(if that phrase translates) so I won't offer anything more on those
last comments. I hope you do give all this a try, and start modestly.
You are a very bright man, and I know that if you just worked with a
modest setup, you would see how you could scale it up later with a new
computer, etc. But when one tries to do too much, all at once, with a
new area like this, the frustrations can really cause you to want to
quit, or assume it can't be done. Start small and work up, and I think
you'll find success. Certainly the many people posting music over at
MMM over the last few years are a testament to that.

HTH,
Jon

Here's the beta zynaddsubfx vsti:

http://personales.ya.com/mahtazz/ZynAddSubFX_Setup_Beta5.exe

You might get more mileage using the standalone windows version and
outputting a wav file with it. Definitely check out the SUBsynth &
PADsynth patches for warm sounds. The developer actually wrote this for
linux and other people ported it.

I never got the microtuner to work with ableton live, since it doesn't
support midi effect vst plugins (like Cubase & Bidule, maybe Reaper).
I've done realtime pitch bending with scala and midi yoke, but sometimes
the root note gets mistuned. Btw, the wusikstation 50$ group buy is
still on til 3/31.

http://www.wusik.com/w/wsgb.html

> Scala file compatibility is a must. Can Zynaddsubfx do this?

It can load .scl files.

> I couldn't find the VST plugin version of it anywhere.

It's a Linux app; I'm not sure if there is a VST version.

> I am burdened with Win ME, and cannot do anything about it
> unless I buy a Macbook Pro.

If you have a Win ME -era machine, it probably doesn't have
enough horsepower to run modern software synths well.
But you have other options besides a MacBook Pro. You could
get a $600 Dell desktop, or a $1000 Dell laptop.

My advice is to get a MacBook Pro if you want to mainly work
in Mac OS, but get a PC if you mainly want to work in Windows
or Linux. I work at Apple so my advice ought to be worth
something.

No matter which platform you choose, there are people here
who can recommend software for microtonal use. If you choose
Linux, you won't have to pay for software, but you'll
probably have to spend more time geeking out to get everything
to work.

> I would like to know the minimal music studio gear optimized to
> work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic
> microtonal music without having to subject myself to the
> mercies of any orchestra or executant for crying out loud.

If you have your heart set on a MBP, I recommend OS X and
Logic. Logic costs $1000 though. But it's hard to beat.

If you want a nice Windows or Linux laptop, I'd recommend
an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad.

If you want to save a buck, go for Dell Latitude, or
a Dell desktop.

-Carl

Thank you so much for this link. I managed to make it work in Cubase VST the
way I wanted. The only issue is, no other instrument or sampled sound other
than the ones bundled with Zynaddsubfx can be retuned.

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <tamahome02000@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 7:12
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Here's the beta zynaddsubfx vsti:
>
> http://personales.ya.com/mahtazz/ZynAddSubFX_Setup_Beta5.exe
>
> You might get more mileage using the standalone windows version and
> outputting a wav file with it. Definitely check out the SUBsynth &
> PADsynth patches for warm sounds. The developer actually wrote this for
> linux and other people ported it.
>
> I never got the microtuner to work with ableton live, since it doesn't
> support midi effect vst plugins (like Cubase & Bidule, maybe Reaper).
> I've done realtime pitch bending with scala and midi yoke, but sometimes
> the root note gets mistuned. Btw, the wusikstation 50$ group buy is
> still on til 3/31.
>
> http://www.wusik.com/w/wsgb.html
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 9:05
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > Scala file compatibility is a must. Can Zynaddsubfx do this?
>
> It can load .scl files.
>
> > I couldn't find the VST plugin version of it anywhere.
>
> It's a Linux app; I'm not sure if there is a VST version.
>

Thanks to Joe, I installed a VST version that works with Cubase without a
glitch. However, I am still having latency issues. Strange, since I set up
ASIO SW-DS 32 as the audio default. One would expect DSP Factory 2416 to
perform better.

> > I am burdened with Win ME, and cannot do anything about it
> > unless I buy a Macbook Pro.
>
> If you have a Win ME -era machine, it probably doesn't have
> enough horsepower to run modern software synths well.
> But you have other options besides a MacBook Pro. You could
> get a $600 Dell desktop, or a $1000 Dell laptop.
>

Portability is more desirable. I'll always have my bulky PC for e-mails and
stuff...

> My advice is to get a MacBook Pro if you want to mainly work
> in Mac OS, but get a PC if you mainly want to work in Windows
> or Linux. I work at Apple so my advice ought to be worth
> something.
>

Well noted. I'll keep my old machine and get a Macbook Pro later.

> No matter which platform you choose, there are people here
> who can recommend software for microtonal use. If you choose
> Linux, you won't have to pay for software, but you'll
> probably have to spend more time geeking out to get everything
> to work.
>

Compiling? Not in this life time! I like things down-to-earth and served on
a silver platter.

> > I would like to know the minimal music studio gear optimized to
> > work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic
> > microtonal music without having to subject myself to the
> > mercies of any orchestra or executant for crying out loud.
>
> If you have your heart set on a MBP, I recommend OS X and
> Logic. Logic costs $1000 though. But it's hard to beat.
>

This logic?
http://www.apple.com/logicpro/

Awesome. Well worth the buck it seems. But what about microtonal notation?

> If you want a nice Windows or Linux laptop, I'd recommend
> an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad.
>

Uh, no more Windows for me, thanx. As for Linux, I don't think I am up to an
open-source platform like programmers or computer engineers. This Macbook
will be for only audio recording and music studio editing.

> If you want to save a buck, go for Dell Latitude, or
> a Dell desktop.
>

Xenharmony is worth every penny!

> -Carl
>
>

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@cox.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 6:18
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Hi,
>
> I'll be brief, because I'm not sure how serious you are about this. I
> *will* say that it would really help if we/you focus on the task at
> hand, not to immediately work on the "Ultimate" solution, as that can
> come in time (and will NOT be free).
>

Dreaming is.

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > Both actually. I have the option to load sounds and instruments unto
> soft
> > samplers like halion as well as tap into the resources of my
> SW1000XG. All
> > that matters is tuning them.
>
> Yes, but working with both hard/ and software instruments at the same
> time can make the task much more difficult. It would be great, since
> you are just wanting to get a start on all this, to make the smallest
> subset of the parts work just the way you want, and then try to add
> others.
>

Agreed.

> > Scala file compatibility is a must. Can Zynaddsubfx do this?
>
> I am not completely familiar with Zyn, but Aaron speaks highly of it.
> I believe it reads Scala files, but I don't believe it will retune
> other instruments - it is just an instrument itself.
>

That's what I noticed.

> > I couldn't find the VST plugin version of it anywhere.
>
> Um, it *is* a VST instrument. But it is an instrument, not an effect.
> For instance, Toby's Microtuner is an effect, but his sample player
> Helios is an instrument. The effects work on the data and/or audio stream.
>

Got it. Standalone vs plug-in. In either case Zyn is working well with
Scala.

> > Not if I can help it at this stage.
>
> Well, that does hamper you quite a bit. One of the first things I
> would do would be to get a good VST instrument with native support for
> Scala (either .scl or .tun files), but I don't believe there are any
> (or many) free ones.
>

Aside from Zyn, I couldn't find any myself.

> > I am burdened with Win ME, and cannot do anything about it unless I
> buy a
> > Macbook Pro.
>
> That doesn't make any sense to me, so I can't help there. I am also
> not a current Mac OS user, so if you *do* end up with the MacBook, I
> won't be of any use. I would urge you already to *not* think about
> trying to run music/audio apps in Bootcamp (or whatever other bootable
> PC situation is in use), as all the reports I've seen suggest that it
> just isn't practical.

Is there any platform for music studio gear that doesn't require a boot-up?

We are still at the state where audio
> applications, especially recording and softsynth type scenarios, tend
> to tax the hardware and OS pretty hard. It is best to stay native,
> i.e. use a current Mac OS application on a Mac platform.
>

Logicpro seems to be the choice for Macs.

> > I simply want to experiment in microtonal recording before I
> > make the move. That is meant to avoid disillusionment with any new
> > hardware/software that doesn't measure up to my expectations.
>
> Right, well understood. But you need to be aware that your
> expectations may also be tied into how robust a system (both hardware
> and software) you will be using. You could actually go out and
> purchase the very best DAW software and a bunch of great VST
> instruments, and if you are running on a way underpowered computer
> with an old OS, you can just forget it.
>

What is DAW?

> For your situation, you just need to get one basic instrument that
> fills your tuning needs, a basic audio/VST sequencer, and you can
> start experimenting. If you start getting very specific about
> instrumental sounds, if you want massive orchestral polyphony, if you
> want track upon track of audio with a lot of processing effects on
> them to give you some pseudo-realistic presentation... well, you are
> going to have to invest in a robust hardware and software system.
>

I am not into serious microtonal composing YET. This is just an experimental
phase. If only Zyn worked like a sampler...

> > Thank you. I would like to know the minimal music studio gear
> optimized to
> > work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic microtonal music
> > without having to subject myself to the mercies of any orchestra or
> > executant for crying out loud.
>
> Well, someone else will have to jump in. And "realistic" is a very
> difficult term - I probably know what you mean, but there have been
> enough fights around here about what sounds "realistic" that I
> wouldn't even go there again (myself).
>

Noted.

> > In particular, I would desire full Sagittal-support in a composing tool
> > (Sibelius, Finale, Tonescape?)
>
> You can forget that immediately. No one has come up with support for
> it, and unless either George or Dave (who I don't believe even use
> those programs) can do it, or someone near them, no company is going
> to put in support for a totally unknown notation.
>

How about Tonescape?

> > Just one score for both reading and playing it right... how about that?
>
> Sounds good to me. Unfortunately, that situation is termed variously
> as "heaven", "nirvana", or some such suitable term. There are some
> ways of doing it that approach the ultimate *within 12tet*, but a
> notational panacea for microtonality, both in look and sound, hasn't
> arrived yet.

It only takes to add Scala and Sagittal support.

Also, be aware that it is very common to need two
> versions: to get something to look right in Finale, it might not sound
> the way you want; to get it to sound the way you want, you frequently
> end up using notational devices that don't please the eye.

I know exactly what you mean.

Most people
> producing serious recordings tend to separate the two tasks, and
> refine the recording in a dedicated DAW, and then refine the score in
> the notation program.
>

The double-edged sword of studio editing.

> > And what about bending each note individually with maximum possible
> compass
> > and pitch resolution?
>
> Yuck. Riddled with problems, and a path I'll never go down. You'll
> _never_ get a full orchestral pallette with full polyphony using
> pitchbends.
>

Then what would you suggest? I was thinking of every channel having the
capacity to individually and dynamically adjust each of the 64 mono-timbral
notes for maximum microtonal polyphony.

> > Also, true sounds, only true sounds... and FX!
> >
> > Lots of presets and libraries too...
> >
> > If only I could have that velocity sensitive multi-touch Laptop LCD MIDI
> > Keyboard to boot!
>
> Well, it is clear that you realize that you are asking for the moon
> (if that phrase translates) so I won't offer anything more on those
> last comments.

Pushing the barriers is what incites progress.

I hope you do give all this a try, and start modestly.
> You are a very bright man, and I know that if you just worked with a
> modest setup, you would see how you could scale it up later with a new
> computer, etc.

Thank you for the vote of confidence.

But when one tries to do too much, all at once, with a
> new area like this, the frustrations can really cause you to want to
> quit, or assume it can't be done. Start small and work up, and I think
> you'll find success. Certainly the many people posting music over at
> MMM over the last few years are a testament to that.
>

I am grateful for your intuitive suggestions.

> HTH,
> Jon
>
>

Cordially,
Oz.

> Thanks to Joe, I installed a VST version that works with Cubase
> without a glitch. However, I am still having latency issues.
> Strange, since I set up ASIO SW-DS 32 as the audio default. One
> would expect DSP Factory 2416 to perform better.

On an ME-era machine, I wouldn't be surprised.

> > > I would like to know the minimal music studio gear optimized to
> > > work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic
> > > microtonal music without having to subject myself to the
> > > mercies of any orchestra or executant for crying out loud.
> >
> > If you have your heart set on a MBP, I recommend OS X and
> > Logic. Logic costs $1000 though. But it's hard to beat.
>
> This logic?
> http://www.apple.com/logicpro/

Yup.

> Awesome. Well worth the buck it seems. But what about microtonal
> notation?

There are ways of doing it in Logic, I believe. Just
don't ask me what they are. :)

-Carl

> Is there any platform for music studio gear that doesn't require
> a boot-up?

I may be taking this out of context, but you can get rackmount
MIDI synths still. They're definitely out of fashion.

One compromise is the Muse Receptor. It's a rackmount PC
with a custom OS that's designed to do one thing: run softsynths.

> What is DAW?

Digital Audio Workstation. Another meaningless term. :)

> If only Zyn worked like a sampler...

You can get Kontakt.

> How about Tonescape?

Requires Win XP (or 2000 in some cases). You'll have to
buy a new Windows box for it.

-Carl

Hi Oz,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:

> > > In particular, I would desire full Sagittal-support
> > > in a composing tool (Sibelius, Finale, Tonescape?)
> >
> > You can forget that immediately. No one has come up
> > with support for it, and unless either George or Dave
> > (who I don't believe even use those programs) can do it,
> > or someone near them, no company is going to put in
> > support for a totally unknown notation.
>
>
> How about Tonescape?

We do plan to include Sagittal notation in Tonescape,
as i've said several times. However, further development
of Tonescape is on hold for right now, until we get either
some investment capital or some C/C# programmers who are
willing to contribute their work free of charge.

And anyway, in the post right before the one i quoted
you said "Uh, no more Windows for me, thanx."
You won't get Tonescape without WinXP.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 19:45
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > Thanks to Joe, I installed a VST version that works with Cubase
> > without a glitch. However, I am still having latency issues.
> > Strange, since I set up ASIO SW-DS 32 as the audio default. One
> > would expect DSP Factory 2416 to perform better.
>
> On an ME-era machine, I wouldn't be surprised.
>
> > > > I would like to know the minimal music studio gear optimized to
> > > > work with a Macbook Pro in helping me compose realistic
> > > > microtonal music without having to subject myself to the
> > > > mercies of any orchestra or executant for crying out loud.
> > >
> > > If you have your heart set on a MBP, I recommend OS X and
> > > Logic. Logic costs $1000 though. But it's hard to beat.
> >
> > This logic?
> > http://www.apple.com/logicpro/
>
> Yup.
>
> > Awesome. Well worth the buck it seems. But what about microtonal
> > notation?
>
> There are ways of doing it in Logic, I believe. Just
> don't ask me what they are. :)
>
> -Carl
>
>

How about Pro Tools then? I hear Logic runs native on Macbook Pro, while Pro
Tools 7.3 is optimized for it.

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "monz" <monz@tonalsoft.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 19:57
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Hi Oz,
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> > > > In particular, I would desire full Sagittal-support
> > > > in a composing tool (Sibelius, Finale, Tonescape?)
> > >
> > > You can forget that immediately. No one has come up
> > > with support for it, and unless either George or Dave
> > > (who I don't believe even use those programs) can do it,
> > > or someone near them, no company is going to put in
> > > support for a totally unknown notation.
> >
> >
> > How about Tonescape?
>
>
> We do plan to include Sagittal notation in Tonescape,
> as i've said several times. However, further development
> of Tonescape is on hold for right now, until we get either
> some investment capital or some C/C# programmers who are
> willing to contribute their work free of charge.
>

That is unfortunate. without Sagittal support from George and Dave, I
foresee difficulties with Tonescape.

> And anyway, in the post right before the one i quoted
> you said "Uh, no more Windows for me, thanx."
> You won't get Tonescape without WinXP.
>

How about Vista then? I might just be willing to have two operating systems
with a Macbook Pro.

>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>
>
>
>

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 05 Mart 2007 Pazartesi 19:48
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > Is there any platform for music studio gear that doesn't require
> > a boot-up?
>
> I may be taking this out of context, but you can get rackmount
> MIDI synths still. They're definitely out of fashion.
>
> One compromise is the Muse Receptor. It's a rackmount PC
> with a custom OS that's designed to do one thing: run softsynths.
>

Heck no. I don't want anything to do with racks. What a waste of space! Talk
about cable clutter...

> > What is DAW?
>
> Digital Audio Workstation. Another meaningless term. :)
>

I see.

> > If only Zyn worked like a sampler...
>
> You can get Kontakt.
>

I have it bundled with Sibelius. Crashes sometimes though. Stupid WinME.

> > How about Tonescape?
>
> Requires Win XP (or 2000 in some cases). You'll have to
> buy a new Windows box for it.
>

I may just have to set dual OS on Macbook Pro for it then. How about Windows
Vista? Does Tonescape work with it?

> -Carl
>
>

Oz.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> My advice is to get a MacBook Pro if you want to mainly work
> in Mac OS, but get a PC if you mainly want to work in Windows
> or Linux. I work at Apple so my advice ought to be worth
> something.

Are you at liberty to comment on the rumor that there will never be a
Logic v. 8?

Paolo

> How about Pro Tools then? I hear Logic runs native on
> Macbook Pro, while Pro Tools 7.3 is optimized for it.

Do NOT use Pro Tools. You have been warned.

-Carl

> > My advice is to get a MacBook Pro if you want to mainly work
> > in Mac OS, but get a PC if you mainly want to work in Windows
> > or Linux. I work at Apple so my advice ought to be worth
> > something.
>
> Are you at liberty to comment on the rumor that there will never be a
> Logic v. 8?
>
> Paolo

Are you kidding? I'm hardly at liberty to disclose where I
work.

-Carl

> > > If only Zyn worked like a sampler...
> >
> > You can get Kontakt.
>
> I have it bundled with Sibelius.

That's Kontakt player (or Silver, or whatever they call it),
which is a completely different beast than Kontakt proper.

> Crashes sometimes though. Stupid WinME.

I can't believe you're still using it.

> > > How about Tonescape?
> >
> > Requires Win XP (or 2000 in some cases). You'll have to
> > buy a new Windows box for it.
>
> I may just have to set dual OS on Macbook Pro for it then.
> How about Windows Vista? Does Tonescape work with it?

Probably, but last I heard it hadn't been tested.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> > > My advice is to get a MacBook Pro if you want to mainly work
> > > in Mac OS, but get a PC if you mainly want to work in Windows
> > > or Linux. I work at Apple so my advice ought to be worth
> > > something.
> >
> > Are you at liberty to comment on the rumor that there will never be a
> > Logic v. 8?
> >
> > Paolo
>
> Are you kidding? I'm hardly at liberty to disclose where I
> work.
>
> -Carl

Oh well, it was worth at shot.

Paolo

Why, may I ask?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 0:30
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > How about Pro Tools then? I hear Logic runs native on
> > Macbook Pro, while Pro Tools 7.3 is optimized for it.
>
> Do NOT use Pro Tools. You have been warned.
>
> -Carl
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 0:33
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > > > If only Zyn worked like a sampler...
> > >
> > > You can get Kontakt.
> >
> > I have it bundled with Sibelius.
>
> That's Kontakt player (or Silver, or whatever they call it),
> which is a completely different beast than Kontakt proper.
>

And this Kontakt is supposed to "micro-tune" everything?

> > Crashes sometimes though. Stupid WinME.
>
> I can't believe you're still using it.
>

Neither can I.

> > > > How about Tonescape?
> > >
> > > Requires Win XP (or 2000 in some cases). You'll have to
> > > buy a new Windows box for it.
> >
> > I may just have to set dual OS on Macbook Pro for it then.
> > How about Windows Vista? Does Tonescape work with it?
>
> Probably, but last I heard it hadn't been tested.
>

Jolly good.

> -Carl
>

Oz.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:

> Are you kidding? I'm hardly at liberty to disclose where I
> work.

Ah, the Eureka Advanced Research Facility.

> And this Kontakt is supposed to "micro-tune" everything?

Yup.

Also see

http://www.12equalboresme.com

-Carl

It's outdated software with expensive, proprietary
hardware that's required to run it and a proprietary
plugin format (RTAS). Plus, I'm not aware it has
any inate micro features (like Logic does).
Plus it doesn't come with Sculpture. :)

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Why, may I ask?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salý 0:30
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
>
>
> > > How about Pro Tools then? I hear Logic runs native on
> > > Macbook Pro, while Pro Tools 7.3 is optimized for it.
> >
> > Do NOT use Pro Tools. You have been warned.
> >
> > -Carl

That's a convincing marketing strategy. No more Pro tools for me.

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 1:58
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

It's outdated software with expensive, proprietary
hardware that's required to run it and a proprietary
plugin format (RTAS). Plus, I'm not aware it has
any inate micro features (like Logic does).
Plus it doesn't come with Sculpture. :)

-Carl

Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 1:59
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > And this Kontakt is supposed to "micro-tune" everything?
>
> Yup.
>
> Also see
>
> http://www.12equalboresme.com
>
> -Carl
>
>

He may be biased, but he's right. Pro Tools will only work with
certain hardware and the only people who care about RTAS are those who
already invested money in Digidesign products.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> It's outdated software with expensive, proprietary
> hardware that's required to run it and a proprietary
> plugin format (RTAS). Plus, I'm not aware it has
> any inate micro features (like Logic does).
> Plus it doesn't come with Sculpture. :)
>
> -Carl
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> >
> > Why, may I ask?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@>
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salý 0:30
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
> >
> >
> > > > How about Pro Tools then? I hear Logic runs native on
> > > > Macbook Pro, while Pro Tools 7.3 is optimized for it.
> > >
> > > Do NOT use Pro Tools. You have been warned.
> > >
> > > -Carl
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
>
> Oz.

I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...> wrote:
> He may be biased, but he's right. Pro Tools will only work with
> certain hardware and the only people who care about RTAS are
> those who already invested money in Digidesign products.

I don't do anything related to music here, and it makes up such
a small fraction of our sales that I'm effectively unbiased.
On Windows I recommend REAPER, I suppose.

-Carl

What is reaper?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 3:49
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...> wrote:
> > He may be biased, but he's right. Pro Tools will only work with
> > certain hardware and the only people who care about RTAS are
> > those who already invested money in Digidesign products.
>
> I don't do anything related to music here, and it makes up such
> a small fraction of our sales that I'm effectively unbiased.
> On Windows I recommend REAPER, I suppose.
>
> -Carl
>
>

What is the difference between Kontakt and EXS24 software sampler then? Or
more to the point, do I need Kontact after Logic Pro for retuning
instruments?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 3:40
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> >
> > Oz.
>
> I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
>
> -Carl
>
>

Ozan,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> What is reaper?

Very nice, new audio (and midi) application:
http://reaper.fm/index.php

I also want to say that Carl's earlier summation of the various
platform/OS situations vis a vis audio/midi recording was completely
spot on, a very concise viewpoint that I am basically in complete
agreement with. Also a complete agreement on staying away from Pro Tools.

This is such a difficult area to make decisions - you aren't alone in
this - and a lot of it has to do with how serious you are about the
end results (by serious I mean how much you care about how the output
sounds). One thing you might consider, since it sounds like (when you
say "realistic") that you lean towards orchestral, or at least
acoustic, instruments would be to listen to the results of some of the
applications and sound libraries that are still 12tet, and see how
they go about making it sound good.

For instance, Kontakt 2 is now supporting microtonality pretty well,
through scripting (and Carl posted a link to one of the helper
applications), but since it is a sampler, it is also completely
dependent on the quality of the sample set. And then beyond that, the
care taken in recording the parts so that they idiomatically reflect
the instrument they will (eventually) portray. There are many sample
libraries (if you choose the sampler route), and you can spend a
fortune on some of them. One place you might be interested in going to
is the user demo pages for the Garritan sample libraries (most notable
for the Garritan Personal Orchestra). There are many examples of
simulated orchestras, and some of them are very good simulations at that.

(Bear in mind that the bulk of my performing and income, as it has
been for the last 30 years, comes from playing in professional
symphony and opera orchestras - I know what they sound like from the
inside out, as well as the outside in...)

If you want to check out some of their stuff (and bear in mind these
people are *not* into microtonality) go to:

http://www.garritan.com/audio/index.html

I mention this because his sample libraries can be loaded into Kontakt.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> What is reaper?

Are you incapable of using a search engine?

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> What is the difference between Kontakt and EXS24 software
> sampler then? Or more to the point, do I need Kontact after
> Logic Pro for retuning instruments?

Both will let you be microtonal, I believe. But Kontakt
has a powerful scripting language that'll allow all kinds
of tuning gymnastics that won't be possible with Logic
alone. Scala Kontakt Microtuner is one example of this.

-Carl

Here's a free stripped down version of Oblivion VST. I think it can play soundfonts:

http://www.oblivionom.com/oblivionfree.html

Joe

----- Original Message ----
From: Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2007 11:35:01 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

--- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@ ...> wrote:

>

> What is the difference between Kontakt and EXS24 software

> sampler then? Or more to the point, do I need Kontact after

> Logic Pro for retuning instruments?

Both will let you be microtonal, I believe. But Kontakt

has a powerful scripting language that'll allow all kinds

of tuning gymnastics that won't be possible with Logic

alone. Scala Kontakt Microtuner is one example of this.

-Carl

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Never mind, Jon was most helpful as usual.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 6:33
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > What is reaper?
>
> Are you incapable of using a search engine?
>
> -Carl
>
>

Hey Jon,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@cox.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 5:31
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Ozan,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > What is reaper?
>
> Very nice, new audio (and midi) application:
> http://reaper.fm/index.php
>
> I also want to say that Carl's earlier summation of the various
> platform/OS situations vis a vis audio/midi recording was completely
> spot on, a very concise viewpoint that I am basically in complete
> agreement with. Also a complete agreement on staying away from Pro Tools.
>

Well noted.

> This is such a difficult area to make decisions - you aren't alone in
> this - and a lot of it has to do with how serious you are about the
> end results (by serious I mean how much you care about how the output
> sounds). One thing you might consider, since it sounds like (when you
> say "realistic") that you lean towards orchestral, or at least
> acoustic, instruments would be to listen to the results of some of the
> applications and sound libraries that are still 12tet, and see how
> they go about making it sound good.
>

As if there was any other way... :)

> For instance, Kontakt 2 is now supporting microtonality pretty well,
> through scripting (and Carl posted a link to one of the helper
> applications), but since it is a sampler, it is also completely
> dependent on the quality of the sample set. And then beyond that, the
> care taken in recording the parts so that they idiomatically reflect
> the instrument they will (eventually) portray. There are many sample
> libraries (if you choose the sampler route), and you can spend a
> fortune on some of them. One place you might be interested in going to
> is the user demo pages for the Garritan sample libraries (most notable
> for the Garritan Personal Orchestra). There are many examples of
> simulated orchestras, and some of them are very good simulations at that.
>

Garritan is bundled with my Finale 2006. Sadly, I misplaced the CD and
cannot find it anywhere. It didn't work with ME anyhow.

> (Bear in mind that the bulk of my performing and income, as it has
> been for the last 30 years, comes from playing in professional
> symphony and opera orchestras - I know what they sound like from the
> inside out, as well as the outside in...)
>

Then you ought to be the one to cross-check the final flacs (assuming that's
the audio format of the future) for much needed criticism.

> If you want to check out some of their stuff (and bear in mind these
> people are *not* into microtonality) go to:
>
> http://www.garritan.com/audio/index.html
>
> I mention this because his sample libraries can be loaded into Kontakt.
>

Impressive.

> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

Oz.

Hi Oz,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:

> From: "monz" <monz@...>
> >
> > We do plan to include Sagittal notation in Tonescape,
> > as i've said several times. However, further development
> > of Tonescape is on hold for right now, until we get either
> > some investment capital or some C/C# programmers who are
> > willing to contribute their work free of charge.
>
>
> That is unfortunate. without Sagittal support from
> George and Dave, I foresee difficulties with Tonescape.

Oh, Tonescape will definitely eventually incorporate
Sagittal ... i just can't say how long it will take.

> > And anyway, in the post right before the one i quoted
> > you said "Uh, no more Windows for me, thanx."
> > You won't get Tonescape without WinXP.
>
>
> How about Vista then? I might just be willing to have
> two operating systems with a Macbook Pro.

We expect Tonescape to work under Vista, but haven't
tried it yet (since we are both using XP and 2000).

However, we are not sure at all that Tonescape will
work on the Mac-with-Windows. We're hoping that some
folks out there who use that OS will try it out and
give us some feedback.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

SNIP

>
> Oh, Tonescape will definitely eventually incorporate
> Sagittal ... i just can't say how long it will take.
>

I regret to say that you are not giving us much hope.

SNIP

>
> We expect Tonescape to work under Vista, but haven't
> tried it yet (since we are both using XP and 2000).
>
> However, we are not sure at all that Tonescape will
> work on the Mac-with-Windows. We're hoping that some
> folks out there who use that OS will try it out and
> give us some feedback.
>

I was thinking of a dual-boot mechanism for MacOS Leopard and Windows Vista.
Surely it is possible?

>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>
>
>

Oz.

Hi Oz,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:

> monz wrote:
> >
> > Oh, Tonescape will definitely eventually incorporate
> > Sagittal ... i just can't say how long it will take.
> >
>
>
> I regret to say that you are not giving us much hope.

And i regret to say that no-one is giving us any money.
Unfortunately, we both need that to survive, and earning
it leaves precious little time to continue development
of Tonescape, which has grown far too large for one
programmer to maintain alone.

We decided to give away for free what we have created
of Tonescape so far, and as yet there has been very little
response from the microtonal community, which is certainly
its target audience.

> > We expect Tonescape to work under Vista, but haven't
> > tried it yet (since we are both using XP and 2000).
> >
> > However, we are not sure at all that Tonescape will
> > work on the Mac-with-Windows. We're hoping that some
> > folks out there who use that OS will try it out and
> > give us some feedback.
> >
>
>
> I was thinking of a dual-boot mechanism for MacOS Leopard
> and Windows Vista.
> Surely it is possible?

It seems to me that it would work OK on a true dual-boot
system. But as i said, we have not tested it, nor have we
gotten any feedback from anyone who has.

Tonescape makes intensive use of Microsoft's 3-D gaming
technology for the Lattice window, and we don't know
if that stuff will work on anything other than a purely
Windows XP system.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

What? No sampled instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't even have Scala support.

So what one needs is a dual-core Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+Microtuner workstation combination for starters.

Could it be possible to program a plug-in for Finale and Sibelius for Scala tuning+Sagittal notation integration as well?

I know I ask for too much, but would it also be viable to have a touch-sensitive foldable MIDI-keyboard with an LCD layer on top for Scala clavier display?

Here is what it would look like:
http://www.amazon.com/West-Music-Roller-Keyboard/dp/B000CMJ1O2

If only LCD could work with translucent rubber!

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salı 6:42
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

Here's a free stripped down version of Oblivion VST. I think it can play soundfonts:

http://www.oblivionom.com/oblivionfree.html

Joe

----- Original Message ----
From: Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2007 11:35:01 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

--- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@ ...> wrote:
>
> What is the difference between Kontakt and EXS24 software
> sampler then? Or more to the point, do I need Kontact after
> Logic Pro for retuning instruments?

Both will let you be microtonal, I believe. But Kontakt
has a powerful scripting language that'll allow all kinds
of tuning gymnastics that won't be possible with Logic
alone. Scala Kontakt Microtuner is one example of this.

-Carl

.sf2 is a sample format. .tun is a scala file.

Joe

----- Original Message ----
From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 12:27:08 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

What? No sampled
instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't even have Scala
support.

So what one needs is a dual-core
Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+ Microtuner workstation
combination for starters.

Could it be possible to program
a plug-in for Finale and Sibelius for Scala tuning+Sagittal
notation integration as well?

I know I ask for too much, but would
it also be viable to have a touch-sensitive foldable MIDI-keyboard with an
LCD layer on top for Scala clavier display?

Here is what it would look
like:

http://www.amazon. com/West- Music-Roller- Keyboard/ dp/B000CMJ1O2

If only LCD could work with
translucent rubber!

Oz.

----- Original Message -----

From:
Joe

To: tuning@yahoogroups. com

Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salı 6:42

Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Microtuner
VST

Here's
a free stripped down version of Oblivion VST. I think it can play
soundfonts:

http://www.oblivion om.com/oblivionf ree.html

Joe

-----
Original Message ----
From: Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo. com>
To: tuning@yahoogroups. com
Sent:
Monday, March 5, 2007 11:35:01 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner
VST

--- In tuning@yahoogroups. com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@
...> wrote:
>
> What is the difference between Kontakt and
EXS24 software
> sampler then? Or more to the point, do I need Kontact
after
> Logic Pro for retuning instruments?

Both will let you be
microtonal, I believe. But Kontakt
has a powerful scripting language
that'll allow all kinds
of tuning gymnastics that won't be possible with
Logic
alone. Scala Kontakt Microtuner is one example of
this.

-Carl

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____________________________________________________________________________________
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Ozan,

OK, I've tried to offer some basics on how you might go about this.
But you yourself are going to have to decide if you:

1. want some kind of system you can use now, with your limited setup,
that will give you a feel of what is possible, or...

2. are going to work out all the specs first, commit the funds
necessary for all the purchases, and then go for your dream system.

You have to choose, because those of us that can offer information
aren't going to (for long) keep chasing endless lists of "must haves".
For instance:

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> What? No sampled instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't
even have Scala support.

Hey, it's the free version! It doesn't cost anything! You can try it
out, and if the basics are there, and the sounds are useable, you can
decide that you'd like to purchase the other version that has the
support for micro (not the way I'd market a product, but I never
understand why people take the time to complain about things that are
free...)

And also for instance:

> So what one needs is a dual-core Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista
setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+Microtuner workstation combination for
starters.

No, not at all. That is one way, but I don't have a Mac, I don't use
Logic, and I don't use Kontakt (currently), but I do have a lot of
software instruments and samplers that allow me to make music in any
tuning I wish. What you describe is just *one* path to your purpose.

And then:

> Could it be possible to program a plug-in for Finale and Sibelius
for Scala tuning+Sagittal notation integration as well?

Yeah, I bet it could. Who would use it? How many people would pay for
it? And, therefore, where are you going to find people to take the
time and effort to program it?

> I know I ask for too much...

:)

I'll tell you what: I've spent a fair amount of time sending you info.
Now it is time for you to do some investigation on your own. Take a
look at all the sites for the products already mentioned, and then
also go to places where a lot of the VST instruments/effects are
discussed in big detailed forums - http://www.kvraudio.com/ - is a
very good one.

Google on "VST Scala microtuning" and various combinations, and you'll
see some of the instruments available. There is a lot of information
you can go over yourself, and if and when you do, and you refine down
your needs (not desires, dear man, we ALL have desires), it will be a
lot more interesting for people to help out with suggestions. You've
already got a lot to go on. Go on it.

Cheers,
Jon

> Here is what it would look like:
> http://www.amazon.com/West-Music-Roller-Keyboard/dp/B000CMJ1O2

Those things play like crap. -Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@cox.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 7:43
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> Ozan,
>
> OK, I've tried to offer some basics on how you might go about this.
> But you yourself are going to have to decide if you:
>
> 1. want some kind of system you can use now, with your limited setup,
> that will give you a feel of what is possible, or...
>
> 2. are going to work out all the specs first, commit the funds
> necessary for all the purchases, and then go for your dream system.
>
> You have to choose, because those of us that can offer information
> aren't going to (for long) keep chasing endless lists of "must haves".

Chasing? Endless lists? Quite the contrary, I'm getting somewhere, thanks to
the help I get from kind people like you.

> For instance:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > What? No sampled instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't
> even have Scala support.
>
> Hey, it's the free version! It doesn't cost anything! You can try it
> out, and if the basics are there, and the sounds are useable, you can
> decide that you'd like to purchase the other version that has the
> support for micro (not the way I'd market a product, but I never
> understand why people take the time to complain about things that are
> free...)
>

I don't want to sound like an ingrate or a freeloader, but I am grumbly and
on a tight budget at the moment.

> And also for instance:
>
> > So what one needs is a dual-core Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista
> setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+Microtuner workstation combination for
> starters.
>
> No, not at all. That is one way, but I don't have a Mac, I don't use
> Logic, and I don't use Kontakt (currently), but I do have a lot of
> software instruments and samplers that allow me to make music in any
> tuning I wish. What you describe is just *one* path to your purpose.
>

So is being stuck with a lousy WinME setup and pitch-bending everything
through weeks of excrutiating labour. A sleek and powerful setup where all
programs are fully integrated with each other will save me the trouble
though. I already have an idea of how things work now.

> And then:
>
> > Could it be possible to program a plug-in for Finale and Sibelius
> for Scala tuning+Sagittal notation integration as well?
>
> Yeah, I bet it could. Who would use it? How many people would pay for
> it? And, therefore, where are you going to find people to take the
> time and effort to program it?
>

If you deem it possible, then I may find programmer buddies amidst the
Turkish academia interested in my studies. What are the priorities one would
like to see in such a plug-in?

> > I know I ask for too much...
>
> :)
>
> I'll tell you what: I've spent a fair amount of time sending you info.
> Now it is time for you to do some investigation on your own. Take a
> look at all the sites for the products already mentioned, and then
> also go to places where a lot of the VST instruments/effects are
> discussed in big detailed forums - http://www.kvraudio.com/ - is a
> very good one.
>

The den of wolves! I'm just a newbie, and cannot be expected to take so much
so sudden.

> Google on "VST Scala microtuning" and various combinations, and you'll
> see some of the instruments available. There is a lot of information
> you can go over yourself, and if and when you do, and you refine down
> your needs (not desires, dear man, we ALL have desires), it will be a
> lot more interesting for people to help out with suggestions. You've
> already got a lot to go on. Go on it.
>

I am busy with my dissertation at the moment, but I'll let you know that
mine isn't just a passing fancy.

> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

Thank you for the time and attention you spent on this matter.
Oz.

But consider an electronic paper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_ink

Now couple this with z-axis capable multi-touch technology, add some
state-of-the-art controls, voila!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 7:58
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > Here is what it would look like:
> > http://www.amazon.com/West-Music-Roller-Keyboard/dp/B000CMJ1O2
>
> Those things play like crap. -Carl
>
>

My bad.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salı 7:37
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

.sf2 is a sample format. .tun is a scala file.

Joe

----- Original Message ----
From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 12:27:08 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

What? No sampled instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't even have Scala support.

So what one needs is a dual-core Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+ Microtuner workstation combination for starters.

Could it be possible to program a plug-in for Finale and Sibelius for Scala tuning+Sagittal notation integration as well?

I know I ask for too much, but would it also be viable to have a touch-sensitive foldable MIDI-keyboard with an LCD layer on top for Scala clavier display?

Here is what it would look like:
http://www.amazon. com/West- Music-Roller- Keyboard/ dp/B000CMJ1O2

If only LCD could work with translucent rubber!

Oz.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> >
> > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> >
> > Oz.
>
> I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
>
> -Carl

Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins, as far
as I know.

I was joking about "bias", btw.

Paolo

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> What? No sampled instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't
even have Scala support.
>
> So what one needs is a dual-core Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista
setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+Microtuner workstation combination for
starters.

Did you say you already have a Macbook Pro and Logic or are you just
thinking of investing in them?

If you go with the Macbook, try contacting XJ Scott and inquiring
about his Lil Miss Scale Oven software:

http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/LilMissScaleOven/

LMSO can retune Logic, Kontact, etc. You must ask XJ directly - he
might find a way to retune something that is not mentioned on the website.

What does AU host mean?

----- Original Message -----
From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 21:13
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> > >
> > > Oz.
> >
> > I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> > sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> > site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
> >
> > -Carl
>
> Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins, as far
> as I know.
>
> I was joking about "bias", btw.
>
> Paolo
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 21:27
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > What? No sampled instrument compatibility? Oblivion free doesn't
> even have Scala support.
> >
> > So what one needs is a dual-core Macbook Pro with Leopard+Vista
> setup and LogicPro+Kontakt+Microtuner workstation combination for
> starters.
>
> Did you say you already have a Macbook Pro and Logic or are you just
> thinking of investing in them?
>

The latter.

> If you go with the Macbook, try contacting XJ Scott and inquiring
> about his Lil Miss Scale Oven software:
>
> http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/LilMissScaleOven/
>
> LMSO can retune Logic, Kontact, etc. You must ask XJ directly - he
> might find a way to retune something that is not mentioned on the website.
>
>

It was praised to me by Michael H. Dixon also. Then I do not need Kontakt
anymore with LMSO?

Oz.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:

> We decided to give away for free what we have created
> of Tonescape so far, and as yet there has been very little
> response from the microtonal community, which is certainly
> its target audience.

Sadly, a lot of people have trouble even installing it. But for those
who can, it can be very interesting.

AU = Audio Unit. Type of plugin that is native to Mac OSX.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> What does AU host mean?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salý 21:13
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
>
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> > > >
> > > > Oz.
> > >
> > > I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> > > sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> > > site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
> > >
> > > -Carl
> >
> > Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins, as far
> > as I know.
> >
> > I was joking about "bias", btw.
> >
> > Paolo
> >
> >
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > If you go with the Macbook, try contacting XJ Scott and inquiring
> > about his Lil Miss Scale Oven software:
> >
> > http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/LilMissScaleOven/
> >
> > LMSO can retune Logic, Kontact, etc. You must ask XJ directly - he
> > might find a way to retune something that is not mentioned on the
website.
> >
> >
>
> It was praised to me by Michael H. Dixon also. Then I do not need
Kontakt
> anymore with LMSO?

I don't know. If you don't want Kontakt, I guess you'll have to
choose another sample player if you really need a sample player. Ask
XJ Scott to recommend something that works especially well with LMSO
if you decide to go with a Macbook and LMSO.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:

> So is being stuck with a lousy WinME setup and pitch-bending
everything
> through weeks of excrutiating labour.

What, exactly, is it you are pitch-bending?

And how does one wrap a VST into AU?

----- Original Message -----
From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 21:59
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

AU = Audio Unit. Type of plugin that is native to Mac OSX.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> What does AU host mean?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 21:13
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
>
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> > > >
> > > > Oz.
> > >
> > > I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> > > sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> > > site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
> > >
> > > -Carl
> >
> > Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins, as far
> > as I know.
> >
> > I was joking about "bias", btw.
> >
> > Paolo
> >
> >
>

> Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins,
> as far as I know.

Those bastards! Reminds me of Cakewalk and their DXi
fetish.

-Carl

FXExpansion seems to be popular. You can find a link to FXExpansion
and other possible solutions here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vst+au+wrapper&btnG=Google+Search

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> And how does one wrap a VST into AU?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salý 21:59
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
>
>
> AU = Audio Unit. Type of plugin that is native to Mac OSX.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> >
> > What does AU host mean?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@>
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Salý 21:13
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
> >
> >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> > > > >
> > > > > Oz.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> > > > sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> > > > site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
> > > >
> > > > -Carl
> > >
> > > Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins,
as far
> > > as I know.
> > >
> > > I was joking about "bias", btw.
> > >
> > > Paolo
> > >
> > >
> >
>

The price tag keeps rising higher and higher. First Kontakt, then Scala
Microtuner, then FX Expansion. It's like pointing the left ear with the
right hand.

Since Logic Pro7 is listed as a program supported by Scala, what more does
one need?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 22:55
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

FXExpansion seems to be popular. You can find a link to FXExpansion
and other possible solutions here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vst+au+wrapper&btnG=Google+Search

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> And how does one wrap a VST into AU?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 21:59
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
>
>
> AU = Audio Unit. Type of plugin that is native to Mac OSX.
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> >
> > What does AU host mean?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@>
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 21:13
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST
> >
> >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Excellent. And how do we integrate Kontakt with Logic?
> > > > >
> > > > > Oz.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not a logic user but I've seen demos. I'm pretty
> > > > sure it's a VST host, though I don't see that on Apple's
> > > > site. Anyway, Kontakt can function as a VST plugin.
> > > >
> > > > -Carl
> > >
> > > Logic is an AU host that requires a wrapper to run VST plugins,
as far
> > > as I know.
> > >
> > > I was joking about "bias", btw.
> > >
> > > Paolo
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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Greetings,

I am trying to follow all these discussions, as they are of great interest to me.

But, they make my head spin. I'm sure people have answered my quest, but it has not registered. I will keep reading and hoping it will one day make sense.

My dream is simple:

Input approximate pitches using standard notation

Retune pitches to fit desired scale/interval structure

Play through soundfonts of quasi high quality

Adjust sound in wav environment (ie Peak)

Render as mp3/ogg/ etc...

So far, the interaction of midi, VST, scala, tuning files and all the rest make my head hurt.

All best wishes,

Gordon Rumson

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> The price tag keeps rising higher and higher. First Kontakt, then Scala
> Microtuner, then FX Expansion. It's like pointing the left ear with the
> right hand.

You only need FX Expansion if you insist on using a VST plugin on a
Mac OSX machine. I no longer see any must-have VST plugins as a Mac
OSX machine owner, but that doesn't mean all other Mac owners feel the
same.

> Since Logic Pro7 is listed as a program supported by Scala,
> what more does one need?
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html
>
> Oz.

Oz- start with Logic & Scala, then add Kontakt if you
find you want it. Kontakt also functions as an AU plugin,
so you don't need a wrapper.

-Carl

> So far, the interaction of midi, VST, scala, tuning files
> and all the rest make my head hurt.
>
> All best wishes,
>
> Gordon Rumson

You and me both. When I was an editor at Keyboard, I reached
a pretty decent understanding of all this stuff, but two years
later and I'm already completely rusty.

It terms of obfuscating stuff that ought to be simple, nothing
can touch the commercial software industry.

-Carl

Ok, no wrapper for me. Would you suggest A Complete Vienna Symphonic Library
package, or just the Kontakt 2.2 bundle?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 23:33
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> > Since Logic Pro7 is listed as a program supported by Scala,
> > what more does one need?
> >
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html
> >
> > Oz.
>
> Oz- start with Logic & Scala, then add Kontakt if you
> find you want it. Kontakt also functions as an AU plugin,
> so you don't need a wrapper.
>
> -Carl
>
>

Agreed. No more VST for my Mac to be.

----- Original Message -----
From: "paolovalladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 23:25
Subject: [tuning] FXExpansion - do you need it or not

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > The price tag keeps rising higher and higher. First Kontakt, then Scala
> > Microtuner, then FX Expansion. It's like pointing the left ear with the
> > right hand.
>
> You only need FX Expansion if you insist on using a VST plugin on a
> Mac OSX machine. I no longer see any must-have VST plugins as a Mac
> OSX machine owner, but that doesn't mean all other Mac owners feel the
> same.
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, no wrapper for me. Would you suggest A Complete Vienna
> Symphonic Library package, or just the Kontakt 2.2 bundle?

I would recommend learing to walk before run. Get your
MacBook Pro and Logic and learn to use them. Then you'll
know what you need and why.

Logic probably comes with tutorials. You may want to get
an additional tutorial DVD or something.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Rumson <rumsong@...> wrote:

> My dream is simple:
>
> Input approximate pitches using standard notation
>
> Retune pitches to fit desired scale/interval structure
>
> Play through soundfonts of quasi high quality
>
> Adjust sound in wav environment (ie Peak)
>
> Render as mp3/ogg/ etc...

My method for doing that has been working for years for me; it goes
Scala seq file, converted by Scala to a midi file, and rendered by
Timidity to a wav file, which can be converted to mp3 or ogg.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:

> It terms of obfuscating stuff that ought to be simple, nothing
> can touch the commercial software industry.

Timidity's non-documentation is a good try, but peel away that and you
find an extremely easy-to-use system.

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Rumson <rumsong@> wrote:
>
> > My dream is simple:
> >
> > Input approximate pitches using standard notation
> >
> > Retune pitches to fit desired scale/interval structure
> >
> > Play through soundfonts of quasi high quality
> >
> > Adjust sound in wav environment (ie Peak)
> >
> > Render as mp3/ogg/ etc...
>
> My method for doing that has been working for years for me; it goes
> Scala seq file,

Where's the "standard notation" part?

-Carl

Notes of course.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Mart 2007 Sal� 22:03
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> > So is being stuck with a lousy WinME setup and pitch-bending
> everything
> > through weeks of excrutiating labour.
>
> What, exactly, is it you are pitch-bending?
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:

> > My method for doing that has been working for years for me; it goes
> > Scala seq file,
>
> Where's the "standard notation" part?

In Scala, which is perfectly willing to accept sharps/flats. Of course,
it doen't have a piano roll if thst is what you mean.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Notes of course.

Notes of what? A midi file? An udderbot?

How do you write a seq?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 07 Mart 2007 �ar�amba 5:31
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> > > My method for doing that has been working for years for me; it goes
> > > Scala seq file,
> >
> > Where's the "standard notation" part?
>
> In Scala, which is perfectly willing to accept sharps/flats. Of course,
> it doen't have a piano roll if thst is what you mean.
>
>

A midi sequencer file.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 07 Mart 2007 �ar�amba 5:32
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Notes of course.
>
> Notes of what? A midi file? An udderbot?
>
>
>

> > > My method for doing that has been working for years for
> > > me; it goes Scala seq file,
> >
> > Where's the "standard notation" part?
>
> In Scala, which is perfectly willing to accept sharps/flats.
> Of course, it doen't have a piano roll if thst is what you mean.

When a musician says standard notation, you think it means
ASCI or a piano roll?

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:

> When a musician says standard notation, you think it means
> ASCI or a piano roll?

Of course not, but if someone is going to insist on using use
Noteworthy or Sibelius or something then they should say that. It's a
different question. If someone is going to make a midi file first, they
should say that also.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> A midi sequencer file.

The midi sequencer being? Scala can be used as a midi sequencer file;
it's what I use.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> How do you write a seq?

It's an ascii character file. To generate examples, start from a midi
file and have Scala convert it into a seq file, which you find in the
pull-down menu under "Tools". You can turn 12-et note values into
either midi note numbers, or sharps/flats.

Hi Gene,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@> wrote:
>
> > We decided to give away for free what we have created
> > of Tonescape so far, and as yet there has been very little
> > response from the microtonal community, which is certainly
> > its target audience.
>
> Sadly, a lot of people have trouble even installing it.

The main reason i'm lamenting the "very little response"
is because at this point now i'm not even sure how true
that is. I don't of those who had trouble installing,
who did or didn't get it working.

I do know that i have helped several of my students and
friends install Tonescape on their XP systems and not a
single one of them had a problem.

> But for those who can, it can be very interesting.

I'm happy that tuning list member Tristan (AKA
"Rosencrantz the Sane") has reported that he's close
to finishing his first piece created entirely in Tonescape.
Hope springs eternal.

I'm really surprised that no-one who has Tonescape
running has said anything about the Beethoven 5th file
i posted: it's the entire first movement of the symphony,
and it's fun as hell to watch the chords roll by on the
Lattice as Tonescape plays it. This has special meaning
for me too: it's the first piece of serious music that
i ever made a real investment in studying, and is pretty
much responsible for my lifelong interest in music and
what caused me to decide to become a composer.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

Gene Ward Smith schrieb:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>> Notes of course.
> > Notes of what? A midi file? An udderbot?

Or notes of a channel? (I think that was the point.)

klaus

Do I have to elucidate everything word by word? It's a program that puts
notes together, such as Cakewalk, Cubase, Master Tracks, Digital
Orchestrator, etc... some of them are audio capable too.

Good for Scala!

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 07 Mart 2007 �ar�amba 8:16
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > A midi sequencer file.
>
> The midi sequencer being? Scala can be used as a midi sequencer file;
> it's what I use.
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Do I have to elucidate everything word by word?

If you are actually serious about asking a question, you must explain
the question. If you are just posting words to vent, it doesn't matter.

That was supposed to be a rhetorical question.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 07 Mart 2007 �ar�amba 20:32
Subject: [tuning] Re: Microtuner VST

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Do I have to elucidate everything word by word?
>
> If you are actually serious about asking a question, you must explain
> the question. If you are just posting words to vent, it doesn't matter.
>
>
>

Tonescape seems to require relatively new 3d video cards. Even I
can't run it at home, and I'm in IT, although I'm not much of a gamer.
I don't think you're going to get much participation on these lists,
unless you can get it to be more compatible with older hardware.

Joe

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:
> The main reason i'm lamenting the "very little response"
> is because at this point now i'm not even sure how true
> that is. I don't of those who had trouble installing,
> who did or didn't get it working.
>
> I do know that i have helped several of my students and
> friends install Tonescape on their XP systems and not a
> single one of them had a problem.

Hi Joe,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@...> wrote:
>
> Tonescape seems to require relatively new 3d video cards.
> Even I can't run it at home, and I'm in IT, although I'm
> not much of a gamer.
> I don't think you're going to get much participation on
> these lists, unless you can get it to be more compatible
> with older hardware.

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, it's true that Tonescape
requires newer video cards ... even i can't run it on my
laptop, which is 1996 technology except for the WinXP OS.

I doubt that there's anything we can do about that. The
main feature of Tonescape's interface is the rotatable
3-D Lattice, and the gaming technology we've incorporated
is required for that.

So the only way we could make it run on older video cards
is to disable the Lattice features. Maybe we should do that,
so that users would at least be able to get it running and
use it to compose microtonal music. But i foresee at least
one head rolling at Tonalsoft after making that suggestion
-- mine.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software