AKJ's harpsichord impros...

Please reassure me that the four pieces for harpsichord halfway down
the page here

http://www.akjmusic.com/works.html

are in 1/5-comma MT - not 2/5-comma as it says ??

Pretty nice harpsichord timbre and the tuning works well with it, so
I'd be astonished if it were really 2/5!

I'll get round to the robot sometime...

~~~T~~~

Hmmm, I'm pretty surprised. It reminds me of 12-EDO, very VERY strongly, not 1/5-comma meantone.

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Dent" <stringph@...> wrote:
>
>
> Please reassure me that the four pieces for harpsichord halfway down
> the page here
>
> http://www.akjmusic.com/works.html
>
> are in 1/5-comma MT - not 2/5-comma as it says ??
>
> Pretty nice harpsichord timbre and the tuning works well with it, so
> I'd be astonished if it were really 2/5!

I hate to astonish, but they are 2/5 comma...if you listen carefully,
you'll hear that there's a lot of jangly activity, typical of 1/3
comma and narrower meantones....

> I'll get round to the robot sometime...

Cool!

> ~~~T~~~
>

Aaron wrote:

> I hate to astonish, but they are 2/5 comma...if you listen carefully, you'll hear that there's a lot of jangly activity, typical of 1/3 comma and narrower meantones....

I'm not finding it there at all. I also hate to astonish in this sense but they're not in 2/5-comma. And now I'm not pretending, I'm sure about this. I've listened to them at least twice very carefully. Don't know what's happened but they just aren't. If they really were, the minor seconds would have to be significantly larger than they are here -- and the chromas, on the other side, significantly smaller. I think I know what I'm saying and I think lots of us here have at least as much experience with 1/3-comma meantone as I have. And 2/5 is even darker than that, which means its intervals can hardly remind of such bright temperaments as 12-EDO or something similar. But this tuning does, at least as far as I can hear it. Once again, I'm not sure what's gone wrong here.

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Aaron wrote:
>
> > I hate to astonish, but they are 2/5 comma...if you listen
carefully, you'll hear that there's a lot of jangly activity, typical
of 1/3 comma and narrower meantones....
>
> I'm not finding it there at all. I also hate to astonish in this
sense but they're not in 2/5-comma. And now I'm not pretending, I'm
sure about this. I've listened to them at least twice very carefully.
Don't know what's happened but they just aren't. If they really were,
the minor seconds would have to be significantly larger than they are
here -- and the chromas, on the other side, significantly smaller. I
think I know what I'm saying and I think lots of us here have at least
as much experience with 1/3-comma meantone as I have. And 2/5 is even
darker than that, which means its intervals can hardly remind of such
bright temperaments as 12-EDO or something similar. But this tuning
does, at least as far as I can hear it. Once again, I'm not sure
what's gone wrong here.

Petr, all,

Ooops--I don't know, I ran them again with the 2/5-comma tuning table,
and Timidity++, and they do sound a bit different, not radically, but
yes---different. I *did* notice I had a Timidity table in the same
directory, set up for golden-meantone; perhaps I made different
versions and then mislabelled one?---I was trying different tunings
out for the music--maybe I goofed---but it appears you are correct!
Congrats on noticing this, and my apologies for inadvertently
mis-leading the public! And now I know just how 2/5-comma sounds in
this piece--I'm not sure if I like it more, or the same, or less....

...anyway, is there a rock to hide under 'round here...?

I will post the *true* 2/5 versions today, you decide. These newer
versions will also use a better in-tune soundfont, which can make a
difference, too. (I *was* using 'Campbell's Harpsichord', now I'm
using 'Campbell's Tuned Harpsichord')

Best,
Aaron.

> I will post the *true* 2/5 versions today, you decide. These newer
> versions will also use a better in-tune soundfont, which can make a
> difference, too. (I *was* using 'Campbell's Harpsichord', now I'm
> using 'Campbell's Tuned Harpsichord')

A teaser--

http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/praeludium_distretto_2_5_comma.mp3

..I noticed, Tom take note, among the rubble, a 'meanfifth.tbl' file,
as well as the 'meangold.tbl'....I'll post a comparison. Perhaps, my
hypothsis was right before, and I did a big blunder when
labelling...man, I'm getting senile if that's the case. And, you (Tom
Dent, sir) and Petr are some keen ear-owners! And I'm senile--oh I
said that already?

Arms for hostages? Nicaragua? Never heard of it!

> A teaser--
>
> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/praeludium_distretto_2_5_comma.mp3

That's freakishly good. By teaser, do you mean
it's incomplete?

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...>
wrote:

> I hate to astonish, but they are 2/5 comma...if you listen carefully,
> you'll hear that there's a lot of jangly activity, typical of 1/3
> comma and narrower meantones....

That's actually not a bad tuning for flattone, which is the 7-limit
19&45 alternative to standard septimal meantone where you temper out
81/80 and 525/512. Of course, for that to make any difference you need
to actually use its septimal values. 45-et is effectively the same
thing as 2/5-comma, tuningwise. The tuning for 7/6 is excellent, and
minor thirds are good, and sharp rather than flat, so that 7/6 and 6/5
are in no danger of being confused. The flattone fifth, lying to the
south of the 19-et fifth, seems like it might be too flat to pass
muster but in practice it seems to work out. It's under my 9-cent
limit, at any rate.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:

> I'm not finding it there at all. I also hate to astonish in this
sense but they're not in 2/5-comma.

Perhaps Aaron could post midi versions and we could check the pitch
bends, and then listen.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...> wrote:
>
>
> > I will post the *true* 2/5 versions today, you decide. These newer
> > versions will also use a better in-tune soundfont, which can make a

> A teaser--
>
> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/praeludium_distretto_2_5_comma.mp3
>
> ..I noticed, Tom take note, among the rubble, a 'meanfifth.tbl' file,
> as well as the 'meangold.tbl'....I'll post a comparison. Perhaps, my
> hypothsis was right before, and I did a big blunder when
> labelling...man, I'm getting senile if that's the case.

Not sure where this rubble is where I'm to be getting the .tbl files
from.

Anyway, the new version does sound remarkably different from (and much
less 'historical' than) the old!!

~~~T~~~