Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Yet another temperament comparison results

It was striking both how well grail did, and how badly 31-et did.
Perhaps I should revist my 31 version and see if I can tone it down,
or rework the melodic lines which I sometimes do more carefully than
I did this time. Grail was Herman's favorite, but with Werck3 a very
close second, and W3 was also Carl's favorite, amd as nearly as I can
make out Aaron's favorite. Score one for W3, I'd say.

1 sqiggles a

Herman: This seems like an appropriate, powerful tuning for this
music. Nothing really stands out, but it does sound like it might be
a little unequal (or in any better than expected for ET). Now watch
as this one turns out to be 12-ET! But I'm guessing that f.mp3 is the
ET one.

2 neidhardt1 b

Herman: Something about this that I can't quite identify seems a
little less solid than the first one. Parts of it sound pretty good
though. In any case, it sounds as appropriate as any of the others,
and some of the key color variations are effective.

3 grail c

Herman: A pleasant tuning. The sequence of key colors around 4:00 has
a nice progression effect; you can tell there's something going on.
I'll tentatively identify this one as the one I like the best, but
many of the others are about as good.

AKJ: c sounded close to equal, at least for the beginning part that I
heard. It seemed that the interval sizes were pretty consistant.

4 31et d

Herman: This one doesn't hold up as well as the others. It's an
interesting effect, like playing Beethoven in 15-ET, but some parts
really don't work at all. Parts sound like meantone, and other parts
sound like meantone with misspelled notes.

Carl: immediately sounds different than a-c. It's gotta be
grail. It works really well in the introduction with the
diminished chords and pedal point. It starts to sound
too far out somewhere around 1:15 (where there's an awkward
upward melodic leap in the tenor). And the run at 1:39
sounds wrong. It's still enjoyable and ear-opening to
listen to the piece, but it wouldn't be my choice if I
was performing it.

5 werck3 e

Herman: This tuning has a generally pleasant effect, without having
much of a distinctive flavor of its own. It does seem appropriate for
the organ timbre. This would be my second favorite after C. Or maybe
this one is better; it's really a pretty good fit.

Carl: e is interesting. Probably my favorite, given the very
limited listening I'm doing.

AKJ: I found that I liked e for it's attrctive consonance--I would
guess off the bat that this was 31-equal, but I could be wrong

6 valotti f

Herman: Seems like a pretty generic tuning. I can't detect any key
contrast in the 4:00-4:20 progression. I vote for this one as "most
likely to be mistaken for ET".

7 12et g

Herman: I like this one, although after hearing all the others it's
getting harder to point out anything distinctive about it. The key
differences are pretty subtle, but it does seem as if some of the
keys have a different quality from others.

/tuning/topicId_69193.html#69220
/tuning/topicId_69193.html#69231
/tuning/topicId_69193.html#69244

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@dividebypi.com>

Ok---shoot me now---Johnny, are you reading this?

LOL!

-A.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> It was striking both how well grail did, and how badly 31-et did.
> Perhaps I should revist my 31 version and see if I can tone it down,
> or rework the melodic lines which I sometimes do more carefully than
> I did this time. Grail was Herman's favorite, but with Werck3 a very
> close second, and W3 was also Carl's favorite, amd as nearly as I can
> make out Aaron's favorite. Score one for W3, I'd say.
>
> 1 sqiggles a
>
> Herman: This seems like an appropriate, powerful tuning for this
> music. Nothing really stands out, but it does sound like it might be
> a little unequal (or in any better than expected for ET). Now watch
> as this one turns out to be 12-ET! But I'm guessing that f.mp3 is the
> ET one.
>
>
> 2 neidhardt1 b
>
> Herman: Something about this that I can't quite identify seems a
> little less solid than the first one. Parts of it sound pretty good
> though. In any case, it sounds as appropriate as any of the others,
> and some of the key color variations are effective.
>
>
> 3 grail c
>
> Herman: A pleasant tuning. The sequence of key colors around 4:00 has
> a nice progression effect; you can tell there's something going on.
> I'll tentatively identify this one as the one I like the best, but
> many of the others are about as good.
>
> AKJ: c sounded close to equal, at least for the beginning part that I
> heard. It seemed that the interval sizes were pretty consistant.
>
>
> 4 31et d
>
> Herman: This one doesn't hold up as well as the others. It's an
> interesting effect, like playing Beethoven in 15-ET, but some parts
> really don't work at all. Parts sound like meantone, and other parts
> sound like meantone with misspelled notes.
>
> Carl: immediately sounds different than a-c. It's gotta be
> grail. It works really well in the introduction with the
> diminished chords and pedal point. It starts to sound
> too far out somewhere around 1:15 (where there's an awkward
> upward melodic leap in the tenor). And the run at 1:39
> sounds wrong. It's still enjoyable and ear-opening to
> listen to the piece, but it wouldn't be my choice if I
> was performing it.
>
>
> 5 werck3 e
>
> Herman: This tuning has a generally pleasant effect, without having
> much of a distinctive flavor of its own. It does seem appropriate for
> the organ timbre. This would be my second favorite after C. Or maybe
> this one is better; it's really a pretty good fit.
>
> Carl: e is interesting. Probably my favorite, given the very
> limited listening I'm doing.
>
> AKJ: I found that I liked e for it's attrctive consonance--I would
> guess off the bat that this was 31-equal, but I could be wrong
>
>
> 6 valotti f
>
> Herman: Seems like a pretty generic tuning. I can't detect any key
> contrast in the 4:00-4:20 progression. I vote for this one as "most
> likely to be mistaken for ET".
>
>
> 7 12et g
>
> Herman: I like this one, although after hearing all the others it's
> getting harder to point out anything distinctive about it. The key
> differences are pretty subtle, but it does seem as if some of the
> keys have a different quality from others.
>
>
>
> /tuning/topicId_69193.html#69220
> /tuning/topicId_69193.html#69231
> /tuning/topicId_69193.html#69244
>

🔗Tom Dent <stringph@gmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> It was striking both how well grail did, and how badly 31-et did.
>

I did remark that 'b' had a consistent smoothness (which is a correct
description of Neidhardt) ... but then pegged it for 31-et (duh).

I guess we're conditioned to hear Bach in near-ET!

Not sure how one could 'tone down' 31-et, except for diluting it to
43-et etc.

It does seem that 'grail' is not unequal or irregular enough for
anyone to find it objectionable - though how often are the 'flattone
fifths' actually used in this piece. And grail does have its best
intonation in the chords of G (major and minor) and D major !!

~~~T~~~

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Dent" <stringph@...> wrote:

> Not sure how one could 'tone down' 31-et, except for diluting it to
> 43-et etc.

I did a quick and dirty version, which only assured there weren't any
new dissonances introduced. I thought people would listen for vertical
sounds, but they didn't, and instead latched onto the fact that some of
he notes, melodically, needed enharmonic adjustment by a diesis. I'm
working on another version, but this piece is not like a typical 18th
century piece; it's more like a 19th century piece, with "puns" popping
up as a part of the nature of the music (rg Bb/A#, where it's to be
looked at both ways.)

> It does seem that 'grail' is not unequal or irregular enough for
> anyone to find it objectionable - though how often are the 'flattone
> fifths' actually used in this piece.

It's not objectionable *in this piece* is all we can conclude, and it's
not the flat fifths I would worry about but the sharp thirds.

> And grail does have its best
> intonation in the chords of G (major and minor) and D major !!

I think when I chose where C would be I was more worried about where it
had its most extreme intonations.