Re: Digest Number 440

>From: Patrick Pagano <ppagano@bellsouth.net>
<snip>Hi John
>I would like to send you the completely mixed piece if you do not mind in
>MP3 format<snip>

Thanks, Pat. Send the piece as an attachment to

jstarret@carbon.cudenver.edu

>From: Herman Miller <hmiller@io.com>
<snip>For the last few days I've been working on an expanded and updated
>version of my Mizarian Porcupine Overture which uses the new
>spectrally-tuned 15TET instruments. When it's finished, I'll send it to
>the Tuning Punks,<snip>

That snippet sounds so cool! I look forward to posting it. For those of
you who don't know, Herman has several Real Audio samples in many
interesting tunings at

http://sites.netscape.net/thryomanes/music.html

John Starrett
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html

[Herman Miller:]
>For the last few days I've been working on an expanded and updated
version of my Mizarian Porcupine Overture

[John Starrett:]
>That snippet sounds so cool!

I'll second that... Can't wait to hear what happens after that
fortissimo tattoo that cuts off the snippet.

Dan

John Starrett wrote,

>For those of
>you who don't know, Herman has several Real Audio samples in many
>interesting tunings at

>http://sites.netscape.net/thryomanes/music.html

The Overture is awesome. Herman, can you give us an analysis of the main
progression?

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:19:43 -0500, "Paul H. Erlich"
<PErlich@Acadian-Asset.com> wrote:

>The Overture is awesome. Herman, can you give us an analysis of the main
>progression?

Okay. For the purposes of this analysis I'll use this notation for the
15-note scale:

C C# Db D Eb E F F# Gb G Ab A A# Bb B C

This is a convenient notation since the note names without sharps or flats
are a subset of Blackwood's decatonic scale, and most of the notated
intervals end up being similar to traditional notation. Which note to
notate as "D" is an issue that can be argued either way, but the others
easily fall into place.

So the main harmonic progression goes like this:

Eb Eb Gb Bb (Eb minor)
Bb Eb Gb Bb
Ab Eb Ab Cb (Ab minor)
Eb Eb Gb Bb (Eb minor)
E E Fx A C (A minor + 7th harmonic)
A E Fx A C
E E G# B (E major)
G D G B (G major)
Eb Eb Gb Bb (Eb minor)

Note that Fx is the same note as Gb, and G# is the same note as Ab. This
particular chord progression goes way back to my first experiments with
15ET, before I even had a suitable notation. It resulted from playing
around with the scale on the DX7II, finding something that sounded good,
and notating the actual keys pressed. Other parts of the overture were
built up by trial and error using the piano roll in Cakewalk.
--
see my music page ---> +--<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--
Thryomanes /"If all Printers were determin'd not to print any
(Herman Miller) / thing till they were sure it would offend no body,
moc.oi @ rellimh <-/ there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin

>Note that Fx is the same note as Gb, and G# is the same note as Ab. This
>particular chord progression goes way back to my first experiments with
>15ET, before I even had a suitable notation. It resulted from playing
>around with the scale on the DX7II, finding something that sounded good,
>and notating the actual keys pressed. Other parts of the overture were
>built up by trial and error using the piano roll in Cakewalk.

Awesome! I don't suppose we could trouble you for something similar for
your 16-tone Etude? Is there a score? How, may I ask, did you tune the
midi file with only four tracks? I think it's brilliant, by the way.

-Carl

On Sun, 19 Dec 1999 11:18:35 -0500, Carl Lumma <clumma@nni.com> wrote:

>Awesome! I don't suppose we could trouble you for something similar for
>your 16-tone Etude? Is there a score? How, may I ask, did you tune the
>midi file with only four tracks? I think it's brilliant, by the way.

Well, it so happens that I made an ASCII score of the first 7 measures, as
a test of my 16-tet notation. I didn't even have a system of notation when
I wrote the etude, or I would have picked an easier key than B# minor! The
MIDI file is tuned with pitch bends on each individual note (which was
tedious to do by hand before I found out about Graham Breed's Midiconv
utility, but that's also the technique I used for the 13-tet and 26-tet
etudes). Here's my 16-tet notation:

C C# Db D D# E E# F F# G G# Ab A A# B B# C

Note that B-D is a major third, but the other thirds are the same as
traditional notation. This system of notation is based on a series of
"fifths" starting on D. Here's the score (beats marked with asterisks, use
a mono-spaced font to make sense of this):

1 * * * * * 2 * * * * *
| 4F# E# F#----- Gx A B# A Gx | A G# F#----- Gx F# Gx F# D
| 4D Cx D------ E# F# Gx F D | F# E D Cx E Cx D--- 3B# A
| 3A Gx F#----- 4D Cx 3B# | A B# A------ B# Gx--- A F#
| 2B#--- B#-- B#-- 3C#--- Cx---- | D---- D---- D-- 2A---- B#--

3 * * * * * 4 * * * * *
| E# F# G#--- F# Gx A Gx F# Dx | E# D# C#--- G# F# G#--- Gx---
| B 4C# E# C# D 3B# 4D---- D# 3Bx | 4C# 3B G# B 4C# D# E# Dx E# Ex
| G# A B---- A Gx F# Gx B A | G#---- E# F G# A B C# Cx---
| 3C#--- C#-- 2B#--- B#--- Bx---- | 3C#---- C#--- C#--- C#--- Cx---

5 * * * * * 6 * * * * *
| A Gx F#---- Gx A G# A Ax | B# Ax B#------ 5C# 4B# Ax B# 5Cx
| F# E# D C D E# F# E# F# Fx | G# Fx G#---- E# Dx E#--- A# G#
| C--- 3A---- 4C 3B#-- 4C# Cx | D--- 3B# 4D 3B# Ax B#-- 4C# E#
| D---- D--- D--- D#-- 2B#--- | 3E#--- E#---- E#---- G#--- F#----

7 * * * * * 8
| D Cx 4B#-- 5D 4B# G#--- Fx Gx |
| Fx G# F# E# F#---- F E# F---- |
| D Cx D--- 3B# 4Db C#--- D Eb |
| 2B#---- B#--- B#--- 3C#-- 2Ax--- |

--
see my music page ---> +--<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--
Thryomanes /"If all Printers were determin'd not to print any
(Herman Miller) / thing till they were sure it would offend no body,
moc.oi @ rellimh <-/ there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin

[Herman Miller:]
>Here's my 16-tet notation:
>
> C C# Db D D# E E# F F# G G# Ab A A# B B# C

Not sure if you'll find this to be of any interest or not, but if you
were to make a circle of fifths in 16e with a fifth size of
(log(5)-log(1))*(16/log(2^4)) or ~9.29/16, you would then have (if
taken through B# & Dbb):

0
F 7 9 G
Bb 13 3 D
Eb 4 12 A
Ab 11 5 E
Db 2 14 B
Gb 8 8 F#
Cb 15 1 C#
Fb 6 10 G#
Bbb 12 4 D#
Ebb 3 13 A#
Abb 10 6 E#
Dbb 1 15 B#

And if you wanted to look at 16e as the circle through G# & Fb (C C#
Db D Eb E Fb F F#/Gb G G# Ab A Bb B Cb), you could then move that to a
lattice as:

F#------C#------G#
/|\ /|\ /|\
/ | \ / | \ / | \
/ | \ / | \ / | \
D---|---A---|---E---|---B
|\ | /|\ | /|\ | /|
| \ | / | \ | / | \ | / |
| \|/ | \|/ | \|/ |
| F---|---C---|---G |
| /|\ | /|\ | /|\ |
| / | \ | / | \ | / | \ |
|/ | \|/ | \|/ | \|
Db--|---Ab--|---Eb--|---Bb
\ | / \ | / \ | /
\ | / \ | / \ | /
\|/ \|/ \|/
Fb------Cb------Gb

or,

8-------1-------10
/|\ /|\ /|\
/ | \ / | \ / | \
/ | \ / | \ / | \
3---|---12--|---5---|---14
|\ | /|\ | /|\ | /|
| \ | / | \ | / | \ | / |
| \|/ | \|/ | \|/ |
| 7---|---0---|---9 |
| /|\ | /|\ | /|\ |
| / | \ | / | \ | / | \ |
|/ | \|/ | \|/ | \|
2---|---11--|---4---|---13
\ | / \ | / \ | /
\ | / \ | / \ | /
\|/ \|/ \|/
6-------15------8

Dan

Herman!
good notation I am going to try it on my meta-mavila scale that comes
close to 16 et. some of my favorite things to do on this scale is to take the
inverse of the major l l s l l l s and use the s s l s s s l with s=2 steps
l=3 steps. for some reason it sounds like a diatonic scale! (l s s s l s s,
does this happen in et! Like i have mentioned before the keyboard alternates 3
and 4 blacks instead of 2 and 3. The notation I have been using is a
klarscripto type notation of 3 lines and 4 lines alternating. The keyboard
really messes with my head in that i can play it for a while and then all of a
sudden, my mind will just freak outs, its too close but too far away at the
same time. Its the only scale that does this to me. The pentatonic of steps
3-4-3-4-2 is one of my favorites and in the range below middle reminds me of
some amazon reed music I have heard, More in feel than any thing else.

Herman Miller wrote:

> Here's my 16-tet notation:
>
> C C# Db D D# E E# F F# G G# Ab A A# B B# C
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com

1 * * * * * 2 * * * * *
| 4F# E# F#----- Gx A B# A Gx | A G# F#----- Gx F# Gx F# D
| 4D Cx D------ E# F# Gx F D | F# E D Cx E Cx D--- 3B# A
| 3A Gx F#----- 4D Cx 3B# | A B# A------ B# Gx--- A F#
| 2B#--- B#-- B#-- 3C#--- Cx---- | D---- D---- D-- 2A---- B#--

Herman, that's fantastic! I'll have to sit down with this over the weekend.

-Carl

Herman Miller!
Actually looking at my 16-tone scale i notice that there is enough
difference from Et to cause some quite different perceptions. Still would be
interested in you perceptions of the scale.

>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com

On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:26:49 -0800, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
wrote:

>From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>
>
>
>Herman Miller!
> Actually looking at my 16-tone scale i notice that there is enough
>difference from Et to cause some quite different perceptions. Still would be
>interested in you perceptions of the scale.

The 3-4-3-4-2 pentatonic? Hmm, it's an interesting scale, but comparing it
with 4-3-4-3-2, I think I prefer the latter. Could you give the details of
your 16-note scale?
--
see my music page ---> +--<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--
Thryomanes /"If all Printers were determin'd not to print any
(Herman Miller) / thing till they were sure it would offend no body,
moc.oi @ rellimh <-/ there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin

Herman Miller wrote:

>
> The 3-4-3-4-2 pentatonic? Hmm, it's an interesting scale, but comparing it
> with 4-3-4-3-2, I think I prefer the latter.

well the inversion!!!

> Could you give the details of
> your 16-note scale?

coming soon!

>
> --
> see my music page ---> +--<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com