Handel 7-limit once more

Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the 7-limit Handel (and happy
birthday to Monz Jr.!) ... however the sound quality my computer
dresses it with is not ideal because
1) the 'voices' have chronic vibrato, making it difficult to hear
(mis)tuning, and
2) relatively little harmonic content.

Having said that, it is reassuring that none of the chords sounds
notably abnormal. A more severe test would come from, say, sawtooth
waveforms...

I thought about playing it on my spinet, then worked out that the
number of notes is too large to accommodate without temperament. So I
tuned a meantone instead, pretty close to 31-EDO, with the aim of
making 7:4 pure and 5:4 and 7:5 negligibly out-of-tune.

The drawback is that the minor thirds are about 6 cents out, and
almost all the beating intervals you hear on the recording are minor
thirds. The moment of greatest 'togetherness' is the aug6 chord!
I could probably do better since not all the minor 3rds involve notes
which need to be tempered...

launch.groups.yahoo.com/groups/tuning_files2/files/tomd/
(may be some delay - my present connection is pretty slow and I'm not
sure if the file will get transferred properly)

How about the aug6 chord in the Parrott/Taverner recording? Sounds
pretty close to a 4:5:7 to me.

In Excerpt 2 I changed my mind about the second chord (dim on
Csharp)... owing to the voicing with E in the bass, I think it would
be better with the following (relative to D=1)

E 10/9 G 4/3 Csharp 28/15

As for a Baroque recording with audible 7-limit chords, how about
Michelangelo Rossi harpischord music on Naxos (played by Sergio
Vartolo). Near the end of Toccata no.7 is an amazing chromatic
passage which at a couple of points sets Eb against Csharp... and in
the meantone tuning used, this results practically in a 7:4. However
the passage is quite rapidly-moving so it is difficult to pick it out.

I think there is also a longer-held chord Eb-A-B at one point.

~~~T~~~

> Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the 7-limit Handel (and
> happy birthday to Monz Jr.!)

Is there a Monz Jr.?!

>... however the sound quality my computer
> dresses it with is not ideal because
> 1) the 'voices' have chronic vibrato, making it difficult to hear
> (mis)tuning, and
> 2) relatively little harmonic content.

I had similar concerns. You may try what I didn't bother to
do, which is load the midi file in a sequencer and change the
patch to something like "reed organ" or whatever sounds best
on your synth.

> launch.groups.yahoo.com/groups/tuning_files2/files/tomd/
> (may be some delay - my present connection is pretty slow and
> I'm not sure if the file will get transferred properly)

I was able to get it just fine. It sounds great! And
decidedly more "septimal" than any Messiah performance I've
heard (and I've seen it live about a dozen times, sang it
in choir myself, and I have 5 different recordings of it).

It's not that the performers aren't flirting with these
ratios, it's just that they don't tend to hit them as accurately
as they do ratios like 5:4 or 3:2. And accurate hitting is
even more important to bring out the locked sound of the
septimal intervals.

> How about the aug6 chord in the Parrott/Taverner recording? Sounds
> pretty close to a 4:5:7 to me.

There's a bit of chorusing going on. Whatever it is, it isn't
particularly clean.

> As for a Baroque recording with audible 7-limit chords, how about
> Michelangelo Rossi harpischord music on Naxos (played by Sergio
> Vartolo). Near the end of Toccata no.7 is an amazing chromatic
> passage which at a couple of points sets Eb against Csharp... and
> in the meantone tuning used, this results practically in a 7:4.
> However the passage is quite rapidly-moving so it is difficult to
> pick it out.
>
> I think there is also a longer-held chord Eb-A-B at one point.

I have this on a recording by Il Complesso Barocco under
Alan Curtis. Such things can be found in many keyboard works
of the period. But I believe, if you look back at the claim
I made, it was in the context of non-keyboard music (because
I am very well aware of these cases).

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Dent" <stringph@...> wrote:

> As for a Baroque recording with audible 7-limit chords, how about
> Michelangelo Rossi harpischord music on Naxos (played by Sergio
> Vartolo). Near the end of Toccata no.7 is an amazing chromatic
> passage which at a couple of points sets Eb against Csharp... and in
> the meantone tuning used, this results practically in a 7:4. However
> the passage is quite rapidly-moving so it is difficult to pick it out.
>
> I think there is also a longer-held chord Eb-A-B at one point.

Could you tell us the name of the piece? I'm interested in such
examples.

Hi Tom,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Dent" <stringph@...> wrote:
>
>
> Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the 7-limit Handel

you're welcome ... sorry i never got around to doing excerpt 2.

> (and happy birthday to Monz Jr.!)

"Jr."? ... not sure what you mean by that, but my birthday
*is* coming up on Friday.

> ... however the sound quality my computer
> dresses it with is not ideal because
> 1) the 'voices' have chronic vibrato, making it difficult
> to hear (mis)tuning, and
> 2) relatively little harmonic content.

I know, MIDI is not the best choice. But if someone else
out there has time and inclination, it could be used as a
basis for an mp3 which offers better acoustical properties
for a critical auditioning. The hardest part of the job
(giving the computer the commands to produce the microtonal
pitches) has been done.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> > Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the 7-limit Handel (and
> > happy birthday to Monz Jr.!)
>
> Is there a Monz Jr.?!

I think Tom was confusing me (Monz) with myself (Monz Jr.)

:-)

However, since it looks like a cat may have inadvertently
been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it now:
my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:

> Could you tell us the name of the piece? I'm interested in such
> examples.

Sorry, I see you did but my eye skipped past it.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:

> However, since it looks like a cat may have inadvertently
> been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it now:
> my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.

Congrats!

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@> wrote:
>
> > However, since it looks like a cat may have inadvertently
> > been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it now:
> > my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.
>
> Congrats!

Thanks, Gene!

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

> Could you tell us the name of the piece? I'm interested in such
> examples.

Tocatta #7, or tocatta settima, is the name. -C.

> > However, since it looks like a cat may have inadvertently
> > been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it now:
> > my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.
>
> Congrats!

Ditto!

-Carl

hi monz
wowwwww ...!! boy or girl?

Shaahin Mohajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web site?? ???? ????? ?????? <http://240edo.googlepages.com/>

My farsi page in Harmonytalk ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? <http://www.harmonytalk.com/mohajeri>

Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia ????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaahin_mohajeri>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of monz
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 2:52 AM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Monz Jr.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tuning%40yahoogroups.com> , "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> > Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the 7-limit Handel (and
> > happy birthday to Monz Jr.!)
>
> Is there a Monz Jr.?!

I think Tom was confusing me (Monz) with myself (Monz Jr.)

:-)

However, since it looks like a cat may have inadvertently
been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it now:
my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com <http://tonalsoft.com>
Tonescape microtonal music software

Congrats, Monz!

BTW, Annika was born on May 3rd of 2006--it would be a hoot if you
have a baby that same day (or close).

-A.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@> wrote:
> >
> > > Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the 7-limit Handel (and
> > > happy birthday to Monz Jr.!)
> >
> > Is there a Monz Jr.?!
>
>
> I think Tom was confusing me (Monz) with myself (Monz Jr.)
>
> :-)
>
>
> However, since it looks like a cat may have inadvertently
> been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it now:
> my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.
>
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>

Congratulations Monz and Girlfriend!

-- Mark Rankin

--- monz <monz@tonalsoft.com> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma"
> <clumma@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Belated thanks to Monz for synthesizing the
> 7-limit Handel (and
> > > happy birthday to Monz Jr.!)
> >
> > Is there a Monz Jr.?!
>
>
> I think Tom was confusing me (Monz) with myself
> (Monz Jr.)
>
> :-)
>
>
> However, since it looks like a cat may have
> inadvertently
> been let out of the bag, i might as well announce it
> now:
> my girlfriend and i are expecting a baby in May.
>
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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