PITCH Early CD URL for review

Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/

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--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@... wrote:
>
>
> Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom
>
> http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/
>

Hi Johnny,

I am interested in hearing this...

Whatever one thinks of Lehman's ideas, he does bring up the point
about Werck III being an organ tuning specifically. I haven't seen
evidence to the contrary, so I assume he's right about this.

What evidence do you have that it was applied apart from *organs* that
you can refer us to?

We do know that Bach had contact with Silbermann, who had his own
clavier tuning. Why not go that route?

There's also the possibility that Bach devised his own tuning, which
he didn't care to publish. Whether or not it has been reconstructed to
date is moot. He may have simply thought that tuning was a relitively
*unimportant* aspect of his music, and as long as a tuning
circulated, it was fine....(certainly, Bach has been performed
convincingly in everything from 12-TET to pick-your-WT-flavor to
various meantones).

I'm sure we would have more exacting records of Bach's preferences if
he had any (or his son's, and we know that CPE simply spells out
unmathematical generalizations about what a clavier tuning ought be,
but nothing particularly detalied). Why should we think that the
insistence on one "true tuning" is anythiing more than religion of
sorts? (and that applies to Lehman, too :) -- I'm not taking *any*
sides in this debate except to say that maybe it's really not all that
important -- yes yes we have new colors when we try new tunings, but
why would Bach really say there was *one* way -- the very definition
of the death of art)

Regards,
Aaron.

> Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom
>
> http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/

Thanks. This isn't findable by searching their site for
your name or for "AFMM", by the way.

-Carl

> > Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom
> >
> > http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/
>
> Thanks. This isn't findable by searching their site for
> your name or for "AFMM", by the way.

The samples did sound promising, so I bought a copy.

-Carl

I found it by googling for this on one line. Not that it's obvious.

You think you 'get' Baroque music? This CD will astound you
site:cdbaby.com

Joe

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> > Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom
> >
> > http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/
>
> Thanks. This isn't findable by searching their site for
> your name or for "AFMM", by the way.
>
> -Carl
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@...> wrote:
>
> I found it by googling for this on one line. Not that it's obvious.
>
> You think you 'get' Baroque music? This CD will astound you
> site:cdbaby.com
>
> Joe

I found it with

http://www.google.com/search?q=reinhard+brandenburg+cdbaby

but I thought Johnny might want to know, since other AFMM albums
do show up in cdbaby searches for "AFMM".

-Carl

Johnny wrote:

> Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom
>
> http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/

I'm not sure if I'm getting the idea. From the discussion lead here, I
supposed this was going to be performed in the way that (how should I call
them?) "Baroque orchestras" tend to play music -- i.e. pitch of A4 = 415Hz,
different intonation preferences and so on. I'm realizing I was wrong. In
fact, in the first movement of the 5th Brandenburg concerto, the minor
seconds in the "leading violin" seem to be, as far as I can hear it, even
smaller than in Pythagorean tuning. This is what I call the "melodic" way of
intonation. Interestingly, for this kind of music, I would prefer to use the
opposite way of intonation (which I call the "choral" intonation) which is
closer to meantone than to Pythagorean. Simply sead, the minor seconds are
too narrow for my ears. Maybe I'll need further explanation to understand
what was the aim here.

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Johnny wrote:
>
> > Location of Early CD on CD Baby: review is at the bottom
> >
> > http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/pitchrecs2/
>
> I'm not sure if I'm getting the idea. From the discussion lead here, I
> supposed this was going to be performed in the way that (how should
I call
> them?) "Baroque orchestras" tend to play music -- i.e. pitch of A4 =
415Hz,
> different intonation preferences and so on. I'm realizing I was
wrong. In
> fact, in the first movement of the 5th Brandenburg concerto, the minor
> seconds in the "leading violin" seem to be, as far as I can hear it,
even
> smaller than in Pythagorean tuning. This is what I call the
"melodic" way of
> intonation. Interestingly, for this kind of music, I would prefer to
use the
> opposite way of intonation (which I call the "choral" intonation)
which is
> closer to meantone than to Pythagorean. Simply sead, the minor
seconds are
> too narrow for my ears. Maybe I'll need further explanation to
understand
> what was the aim here.
>
> Petr
>

I can't say I got any definite idea of the size of diatonic semitones
from the samples on the AFMM webpage. But maybe that's due to my usual
concentration on 'vertical' tuning.

However, what should be obvious to everyone in the 2nd movement of
Brandenburg 2 is that the recorder is not actually following any
scheme of fixed pitches.

(Also, I am left to wonder why the music, even harpsichord solos, is
in 'easy' keys, when Werckmeister tuning should work in Ab major and
F# major and so on ad infinitum...)

I'm slightly surprised that Johnny puts the emphasis on fingering and
doctoring fingerholes etc., when the recorder (and for that matter the
bassoon) are so sensitive to wind pressure and / or embouchure. For
the recorder this makes it almost inevitable that the pitch will trend
upwards at the beginning of a note and downwards at the end, and any
unsteadiness will immediately be audible as vibrato. That is the
character of the instrument, and it is not to be 'tamed' to any fixed
tuning except in the middle of a note with steady breath.

Playing the recorder in tune is almost always a clever and artistic
illusion... I would like to see what happens if a recorder solo
(played by Johnny or anyone else!) is put through a pitch analysis
program.

Anyway, let me clarify what seems to have been misunderstood in my
previous posts. What I mean by 'flexible' intonation is not 'crooning'
or 'sliding' or indeed any sort of pitch bend within a note. It means
a given note on the page is allowed to have different pitches at
different points in the music. Meantone distinction between G# and Ab
is not 'flexible' in this sense, because the two are different notes
on the page and the performer is not free to substitute one for the
other.

Nor does it mean players doing any darn thing they like. On the
contrary, it means doing exactly that darn thing which gives
sufficiently pure intervals.

For example a player producing an B within a chord of E major might
*during rehearsal* want to slide it up a little towards purity above
the bass, or within a chord of G major to slide it a little down; then
in performance might be able to remember and reproduce this difference
without sliding.

Adaptive JI, or tuning sufficiently-pure above a bass, certainly
doesn't mean that singers or players must spend such-and-such a time
sliding around in search of the note in performance. What's rehearsal
for, with respect to tuning, if not to find out what pitch sounds
better at what point?

~~~T~~~

Hi Tom and everyone!

TD: I can't say I got any definite idea of the size of diatonic semitones
from the samples on the AFMM webpage. But maybe that's due to my usual
concentration on 'vertical' tuning. However, what should be obvious to everyone
in the 2nd movement of Brandenburg 2 is that the recorder is not actually following any
scheme of fixed pitches.

JR: Hello again, Tom. How silly sounding this is to me. One thing about the second movement is the large leaps and virtuosity involved in getting everything to simply speak (let alone speak in “tune”). May I caution against using the word “obvious” in any serious way?

TD: (Also, I am left to wonder why the music, even harpsichord solos, is
in 'easy' keys, when Werckmeister tuning should work in Ab major and
F# major and so on ad infinitum...)

JR: Now it seems we have reached a point in this discussion when it is important to extract misunderstandings: Werckmeister III is designed to play in all keys while retaining more consonance in the diatonic keys. What do Rudolf Rasch and Tom Dent not understand about this? Werckmeister’s C Major Christmas Cantata should prove this to y’all. And, most important, it is not merely the choice of tonic key, but the movements through different chords that makes for the modulation in baroque music. Hence, all of the music gets some of the different intervallic possibilities, as perfect demonstrated by Bach’s harpsichord solos.

TD: I'm slightly surprised that Johnny puts the emphasis on fingering and
doctoring fingerholes etc., when the recorder (and for that matter the
bassoon) are so sensitive to wind pressure and / or embouchure.

JR: Man, have you no idea how the bassoon in my hands, and others, has played in numerous tunings? Did you not say yourself that the bassoon must follow the bass lines of the harpsichord left hand? Did I not do that in the Johann Michael Bach Cantata on the same CD?

TD: For the recorder this makes it almost inevitable that the pitch will trend
upwards at the beginning of a note and downwards at the end, and any
unsteadiness will immediately be audible as vibrato.

JR: A bit of nonsense. The player has the responsibility to control the air velocity, and thus the tuning. As a professor of bassoon at New York University, one third of lessons are on reeds, one third on breathing, and the remaining third is everything else. BTW, if you want to hear great avant-garde recorder check out the PITCH CD Recorderist Pete Rose on CD Baby. Only, Pete doesn’t do early music. Tom, you won’t believe what Pete can accomplish.

Simply said, any instrument can hold a single pitch if the player is capable and willing. You are thinking of insufficient players, I suspect.

TD: That is the
character of the instrument, and it is not to be 'tamed' to any fixed
tuning except in the middle of a note with steady breath.

JR: Sorry, but that is pure baloney, and that’s the nicest way I can say it. Just as a singer can, one can start on any pitch heard in the head, especially after rehearsals.

TD: Playing the recorder in tune is almost always a clever and artistic
illusion... I would like to see what happens if a recorder solo
(played by Johnny or anyone else!) is put through a pitch analysis
program.

JR: It’s just a straight column with a fipple. It, in fact, makes for a great tuning pipe.

TD: Nor does it mean players doing any darn thing they like. On the
contrary, it means doing exactly that darn thing which gives
sufficiently pure intervals.

JR: This seems to me a contradiction; the recorder is “incapable” of exact pitch, BUT it gives exact just relationships with proper thought and rehearsal. Tom, unless you are a professional recorder player, where do you get these ideas from?

TD: For example a player producing an B within a chord of E major might
*during rehearsal* want to slide it up a little towards purity above
the bass, or within a chord of G major to slide it a little down; then
in performance might be able to remember and reproduce this difference
without sliding.

JR: In Werckmeister III, the result would sound like crap. Maybe you thought I played like crap. I’d rather you said that rather than malign the instrument.

TD: Adaptive JI, or tuning sufficiently-pure above a bass, certainly
doesn't mean that singers or players must spend such-and-such a time
sliding around in search of the note in performance. What's rehearsal
for, with respect to tuning, if not to find out what pitch sounds
better at what point?
~~~T~~~

JR: Rehearsal is usually 3 times per concert for most any piece we play in the AFMM. There is no “extra” time allotted to tuning system in our group as it is worked out even before the first rehearsal begins by the individual players.

All best, Johnny

p.s. And I really mean it. We have been trying to explain our positions. No offense is meant if we come at things from different directions.
________________________________________________________________________
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Hi Tom, Johnny,

I will say that 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.

I would tend to agree with Tom that no matter how virtuostic the
player of a wind or bowed instrument, you are never going to get
absolute zero pitch fluctuation in any sustained note. AFAIK, this is
easily testable fact, and one could simply measure the pitch of anyone
claiming otherwise.

-A.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@... wrote:
>
> Hi Tom and everyone!
>
> TD: I can't say I got any definite idea of the size of diatonic
semitones
> from the samples on the AFMM webpage. But maybe that's due to my usual
> concentration on 'vertical' tuning. However, what should be obvious
to everyone
> in the 2nd movement of Brandenburg 2 is that the recorder is not
actually following any
> scheme of fixed pitches.
>
>
> JR: Hello again, Tom. How silly sounding this is to me. One thing
about the second movement is the large leaps and virtuosity involved
in getting everything to simply speak (let alone speak in “tune”).
May I caution against using the word “obvious” in any serious way?
>
> TD: (Also, I am left to wonder why the music, even harpsichord
solos, is
> in 'easy' keys, when Werckmeister tuning should work in Ab major and
> F# major and so on ad infinitum...)
>
>
> JR: Now it seems we have reached a point in this discussion when it
is important to extract misunderstandings: Werckmeister III is
designed to play in all keys while retaining more consonance in the
diatonic keys. What do Rudolf Rasch and Tom Dent not understand about
this? Werckmeister’s C Major Christmas Cantata should prove this to
y’all. And, most important, it is not merely the choice of tonic
key, but the movements through different chords that makes for the
modulation in baroque music. Hence, all of the music gets some of the
different intervallic possibilities, as perfect demonstrated by
Bach’s harpsichord solos.
>
> TD: I'm slightly surprised that Johnny puts the emphasis on
fingering and
> doctoring fingerholes etc., when the recorder (and for that matter the
> bassoon) are so sensitive to wind pressure and / or embouchure.
>
> JR: Man, have you no idea how the bassoon in my hands, and others,
has played in numerous tunings? Did you not say yourself that the
bassoon must follow the bass lines of the harpsichord left hand? Did
I not do that in the Johann Michael Bach Cantata on the same CD?
>
> TD: For the recorder this makes it almost inevitable that the pitch
will trend
> upwards at the beginning of a note and downwards at the end, and any
> unsteadiness will immediately be audible as vibrato.
>
> JR: A bit of nonsense. The player has the responsibility to
control the air velocity, and thus the tuning. As a professor of
bassoon at New York University, one third of lessons are on reeds, one
third on breathing, and the remaining third is everything else. BTW,
if you want to hear great avant-garde recorder check out the PITCH CD
Recorderist Pete Rose on CD Baby. Only, Pete doesn’t do early
music. Tom, you won’t believe what Pete can accomplish.
>
> Simply said, any instrument can hold a single pitch if the player is
capable and willing. You are thinking of insufficient players, I suspect.
>
> TD: That is the
> character of the instrument, and it is not to be 'tamed' to any fixed
> tuning except in the middle of a note with steady breath.
>
>
> JR: Sorry, but that is pure baloney, and that’s the nicest way I
can say it. Just as a singer can, one can start on any pitch heard in
the head, especially after rehearsals.
>
> TD: Playing the recorder in tune is almost always a clever and artistic
> illusion... I would like to see what happens if a recorder solo
> (played by Johnny or anyone else!) is put through a pitch analysis
> program.
>
>
> JR: It’s just a straight column with a fipple. It, in fact,
makes for a great tuning pipe.
>
> TD: Nor does it mean players doing any darn thing they like. On the
> contrary, it means doing exactly that darn thing which gives
> sufficiently pure intervals.
>
>
> JR: This seems to me a contradiction; the recorder is
“incapable” of exact pitch, BUT it gives exact just relationships
with proper thought and rehearsal. Tom, unless you are a professional
recorder player, where do you get these ideas from?
>
> TD: For example a player producing an B within a chord of E major might
> *during rehearsal* want to slide it up a little towards purity above
> the bass, or within a chord of G major to slide it a little down; then
> in performance might be able to remember and reproduce this difference
> without sliding.
>
>
> JR: In Werckmeister III, the result would sound like crap. Maybe
you thought I played like crap. I’d rather you said that rather
than malign the instrument.
>
> TD: Adaptive JI, or tuning sufficiently-pure above a bass, certainly
> doesn't mean that singers or players must spend such-and-such a time
> sliding around in search of the note in performance. What's rehearsal
> for, with respect to tuning, if not to find out what pitch sounds
> better at what point?
> ~~~T~~~
>
> JR: Rehearsal is usually 3 times per concert for most any piece we
play in the AFMM. There is no “extra” time allotted to tuning
system in our group as it is worked out even before the first
rehearsal begins by the individual players.
>
> All best, Johnny
>
> p.s. And I really mean it. We have been trying to explain our
positions. No offense is meant if we come at things from different
directions.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>

I have read throughout this week all too many allegations regarding a
faithful rendition of J.S. Bach's compositions that amount to no less queer
a case than an orthodox person claiming that the truest pitches of Turkish
Music are those of Arel-Ezgi and that one ought to abide by them zealously
without the slightest deviation in practice.

Religiosity in a single tuning is a most bizzare thing - especially when
tuning as a science ought to be considered a practical solution to
music-making!

The physical boundaries between acoustical reality and instrumental
virtuosity have dissapeared in these discussions. Someone ought to put
Johnny's super-human abilities to the test and see if what he claims to
achieve is actually true in his live performances.

I will not consider a single-cent's worth of deviance from someone who
claims to control his instrument with cent-precision excusable though.

An incredulous Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@dividebypi.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 25 Kas�m 2006 Cumartesi 21:38
Subject: [tuning] a bit o' science (adaptively-sufficiently-pure vs.
pre-determined tunings)

Hi Tom, Johnny,

I will say that 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.

I would tend to agree with Tom that no matter how virtuostic the
player of a wind or bowed instrument, you are never going to get
absolute zero pitch fluctuation in any sustained note. AFAIK, this is
easily testable fact, and one could simply measure the pitch of anyone
claiming otherwise.

-A.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@... wrote:
>
> Hi Tom and everyone!
>
> TD: I can't say I got any definite idea of the size of diatonic
semitones
> from the samples on the AFMM webpage. But maybe that's due to my usual
> concentration on 'vertical' tuning. However, what should be obvious
to everyone
> in the 2nd movement of Brandenburg 2 is that the recorder is not
actually following any
> scheme of fixed pitches.
>
>
> JR: Hello again, Tom. How silly sounding this is to me. One thing
about the second movement is the large leaps and virtuosity involved
in getting everything to simply speak (let alone speak in “tune�).
May I caution against using the word “obvious� in any serious way?
>
> TD: (Also, I am left to wonder why the music, even harpsichord
solos, is
> in 'easy' keys, when Werckmeister tuning should work in Ab major and
> F# major and so on ad infinitum...)
>
>
> JR: Now it seems we have reached a point in this discussion when it
is important to extract misunderstandings: Werckmeister III is
designed to play in all keys while retaining more consonance in the
diatonic keys. What do Rudolf Rasch and Tom Dent not understand about
this? Werckmeister’s C Major Christmas Cantata should prove this to
y’all. And, most important, it is not merely the choice of tonic
key, but the movements through different chords that makes for the
modulation in baroque music. Hence, all of the music gets some of the
different intervallic possibilities, as perfect demonstrated by
Bach’s harpsichord solos.
>
> TD: I'm slightly surprised that Johnny puts the emphasis on
fingering and
> doctoring fingerholes etc., when the recorder (and for that matter the
> bassoon) are so sensitive to wind pressure and / or embouchure.
>
> JR: Man, have you no idea how the bassoon in my hands, and others,
has played in numerous tunings? Did you not say yourself that the
bassoon must follow the bass lines of the harpsichord left hand? Did
I not do that in the Johann Michael Bach Cantata on the same CD?
>
> TD: For the recorder this makes it almost inevitable that the pitch
will trend
> upwards at the beginning of a note and downwards at the end, and any
> unsteadiness will immediately be audible as vibrato.
>
> JR: A bit of nonsense. The player has the responsibility to
control the air velocity, and thus the tuning. As a professor of
bassoon at New York University, one third of lessons are on reeds, one
third on breathing, and the remaining third is everything else. BTW,
if you want to hear great avant-garde recorder check out the PITCH CD
Recorderist Pete Rose on CD Baby. Only, Pete doesn’t do early
music. Tom, you won’t believe what Pete can accomplish.
>
> Simply said, any instrument can hold a single pitch if the player is
capable and willing. You are thinking of insufficient players, I suspect.
>
> TD: That is the
> character of the instrument, and it is not to be 'tamed' to any fixed
> tuning except in the middle of a note with steady breath.
>
>
> JR: Sorry, but that is pure baloney, and that’s the nicest way I
can say it. Just as a singer can, one can start on any pitch heard in
the head, especially after rehearsals.
>
> TD: Playing the recorder in tune is almost always a clever and artistic
> illusion... I would like to see what happens if a recorder solo
> (played by Johnny or anyone else!) is put through a pitch analysis
> program.
>
>
> JR: It’s just a straight column with a fipple. It, in fact,
makes for a great tuning pipe.
>
> TD: Nor does it mean players doing any darn thing they like. On the
> contrary, it means doing exactly that darn thing which gives
> sufficiently pure intervals.
>
>
> JR: This seems to me a contradiction; the recorder is
“incapable� of exact pitch, BUT it gives exact just relationships
with proper thought and rehearsal. Tom, unless you are a professional
recorder player, where do you get these ideas from?
>
> TD: For example a player producing an B within a chord of E major might
> *during rehearsal* want to slide it up a little towards purity above
> the bass, or within a chord of G major to slide it a little down; then
> in performance might be able to remember and reproduce this difference
> without sliding.
>
>
> JR: In Werckmeister III, the result would sound like crap. Maybe
you thought I played like crap. I’d rather you said that rather
than malign the instrument.
>
> TD: Adaptive JI, or tuning sufficiently-pure above a bass, certainly
> doesn't mean that singers or players must spend such-and-such a time
> sliding around in search of the note in performance. What's rehearsal
> for, with respect to tuning, if not to find out what pitch sounds
> better at what point?
> ~~~T~~~
>
> JR: Rehearsal is usually 3 times per concert for most any piece we
play in the AFMM. There is no “extra� time allotted to tuning
system in our group as it is worked out even before the first
rehearsal begins by the individual players.
>
> All best, Johnny
>
> p.s. And I really mean it. We have been trying to explain our
positions. No offense is meant if we come at things from different
directions.
>

Unless you used pitch correcting software and
amplified the result to the point that it obscured the
original pitches... then you could truly arrive at
early music performance practice! ;)

--- Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@dividebypi.com>
wrote:

> Hi Tom, Johnny,
>
> I will say that 'extraordinary claims require
> extraordinary evidence'.
>
> I would tend to agree with Tom that no matter how
> virtuostic the
> player of a wind or bowed instrument, you are never
> going to get
> absolute zero pitch fluctuation in any sustained
> note. AFAIK, this is
> easily testable fact, and one could simply measure
> the pitch of anyone
> claiming otherwise.
>
> -A.
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@... wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tom and everyone!
> >
> > TD: I can't say I got any definite idea of the
> size of diatonic
> semitones
> > from the samples on the AFMM webpage. But maybe
> that's due to my usual
> > concentration on 'vertical' tuning. However, what
> should be obvious
> to everyone
> > in the 2nd movement of Brandenburg 2 is that the
> recorder is not
> actually following any
> > scheme of fixed pitches.
> >
> >
> > JR: Hello again, Tom. How silly sounding this is
> to me. One thing
> about the second movement is the large leaps and
> virtuosity involved
> in getting everything to simply speak (let alone
> speak in “tune�?).
> May I caution against using the word “obvious�?
> in any serious way?
> >
> > TD: (Also, I am left to wonder why the music,
> even harpsichord
> solos, is
> > in 'easy' keys, when Werckmeister tuning should
> work in Ab major and
> > F# major and so on ad infinitum...)
> >
> >
> > JR: Now it seems we have reached a point in this
> discussion when it
> is important to extract misunderstandings:
> Werckmeister III is
> designed to play in all keys while retaining more
> consonance in the
> diatonic keys. What do Rudolf Rasch and Tom Dent
> not understand about
> this? Werckmeister’s C Major Christmas Cantata
> should prove this to
> y’all. And, most important, it is not merely the
> choice of tonic
> key, but the movements through different chords that
> makes for the
> modulation in baroque music. Hence, all of the
> music gets some of the
> different intervallic possibilities, as perfect
> demonstrated by
> Bach’s harpsichord solos.
> >
> > TD: I'm slightly surprised that Johnny puts the
> emphasis on
> fingering and
> > doctoring fingerholes etc., when the recorder (and
> for that matter the
> > bassoon) are so sensitive to wind pressure and /
> or embouchure.
> >
> > JR: Man, have you no idea how the bassoon in my
> hands, and others,
> has played in numerous tunings? Did you not say
> yourself that the
> bassoon must follow the bass lines of the
> harpsichord left hand? Did
> I not do that in the Johann Michael Bach Cantata on
> the same CD?
> >
> > TD: For the recorder this makes it almost
> inevitable that the pitch
> will trend
> > upwards at the beginning of a note and downwards
> at the end, and any
> > unsteadiness will immediately be audible as
> vibrato.
> >
> > JR: A bit of nonsense. The player has the
> responsibility to
> control the air velocity, and thus the tuning. As a
> professor of
> bassoon at New York University, one third of lessons
> are on reeds, one
> third on breathing, and the remaining third is
> everything else. BTW,
> if you want to hear great avant-garde recorder check
> out the PITCH CD
> Recorderist Pete Rose on CD Baby. Only, Pete
> doesn’t do early
> music. Tom, you won’t believe what Pete can
> accomplish.
> >
> > Simply said, any instrument can hold a single
> pitch if the player is
> capable and willing. You are thinking of
> insufficient players, I suspect.
> >
> > TD: That is the
> > character of the instrument, and it is not to be
> 'tamed' to any fixed
> > tuning except in the middle of a note with steady
> breath.
> >
> >
> > JR: Sorry, but that is pure baloney, and that’s
> the nicest way I
> can say it. Just as a singer can, one can start on
> any pitch heard in
> the head, especially after rehearsals.
> >
> > TD: Playing the recorder in tune is almost always
> a clever and artistic
> > illusion... I would like to see what happens if a
> recorder solo
> > (played by Johnny or anyone else!) is put through
> a pitch analysis
> > program.
> >
> >
> > JR: It’s just a straight column with a fipple.
> It, in fact,
> makes for a great tuning pipe.
> >
> > TD: Nor does it mean players doing any darn thing
> they like. On the
> > contrary, it means doing exactly that darn thing
> which gives
> > sufficiently pure intervals.
> >
> >
> > JR: This seems to me a contradiction; the
> recorder is
> “incapable�? of exact pitch, BUT it gives exact
> just relationships
> with proper thought and rehearsal. Tom, unless you
> are a professional
> recorder player, where do you get these ideas from?
> >
> > TD: For example a player producing an B within a
> chord of E major might
> > *during rehearsal* want to slide it up a little
> towards purity above
> > the bass, or within a chord of G major to slide it
> a little down; then
> > in performance might be able to remember and
> reproduce this difference
> > without sliding.
> >
> >
> > JR: In Werckmeister III, the result would sound
> like crap. Maybe
> you thought I played like crap. I’d rather you
> said that rather
> than malign the instrument.
> >
> > TD: Adaptive JI, or tuning sufficiently-pure
> above a bass, certainly
> > doesn't mean that singers or players must spend
> such-and-such a time
> > sliding around in search of the note in
> performance. What's rehearsal
> > for, with respect to tuning, if not to find out
> what pitch sounds
> > better at what point?
> > ~~~T~~~
> >
> > JR: Rehearsal is usually 3 times per concert for
> most any piece we
> play in the AFMM. There is no “extra�? time
> allotted to tuning
> system in our group as it is worked out even before
> the first
> rehearsal begins by the individual players.
> >
> > All best, Johnny
> >
> > p.s. And I really mean it. We have been trying
> to explain our
> positions. No offense is meant if we come at things
> from different
>
=== message truncated ===

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