http://truetemperament.com

http://truetemperament.com

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Ah, this is the kind of fret-bending that I mentioned a while ago.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <db@biink.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>; <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 06 Kas�m 2006 Pazartesi 17:52
Subject: [tuning] http://truetemperament.com

> http://truetemperament.com
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>

Jagshemash-

I have a new webpagelet up with info about, and a pic of, the Prime Guitar,
and an mp3 of a piece.

my name-a Dante, I hope-a you like my musics piece. jenkuya.

http://users.rcn.com/dante.interport//primeguitar.htm

Simply wonderful.

It seems like it shouldn't sound as good as it does given
the tuning. The acoustic guitar, especially the classical
guitar (this is one, yes?) seems to hide the dissonance of
intervals. Blackwood's 15-tET guitar suite is an even more
extreme example.

-Carl

> Jagshemash-
>
> I have a new webpagelet up with info about, and a pic of, the
> Prime Guitar, and an mp3 of a piece.
>
> my name-a Dante, I hope-a you like my musics piece. jenkuya.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/dante.interport//primeguitar.htm

thanks Carl-

I too was sceptical about how practial this setup would be, until I started
plunking around in it and found a multitude of nice sounds. I'm not sure if
its the classical guitar timbre hiding the dissonance, or the ultimate
fecundity of the harmonic series in its many forms. I'm "partial" towards
the latter explanation.

Two features I notice with this guitar are: the way that (some) higher prime
partials approximate lower prime ratios (others instead produce unique
intervals that do not sound at all like "mistuned" lower ratios), and the
selection of available pitches based on the appearance of primes in the
series. Both of these contribute to the overall sound of the instrument.

Dante

-----Original Message-----
From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Carl Lumma
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:44 PM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Re: New guitar: Prime Guitar w/mp3

Simply wonderful.

It seems like it shouldn't sound as good as it does given
the tuning. The acoustic guitar, especially the classical
guitar (this is one, yes?) seems to hide the dissonance of
intervals. Blackwood's 15-tET guitar suite is an even more
extreme example.

-Carl

> Jagshemash-
>
> I have a new webpagelet up with info about, and a pic of, the
> Prime Guitar, and an mp3 of a piece.
>
> my name-a Dante, I hope-a you like my musics piece. jenkuya.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/dante.interport//primeguitar.htm

You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.

Yahoo! Groups Links

I've tried out using primes 11-43 myself, and found it surprising how
well the primes "approximate" other more commmon just intervals. I
noticed you kept very strongly to diatonic structures in this piece,
in fact if i hadn't been informed about it, i would probably have
guessed that it was 12-tet with a bad tuning! Might have been
interesting if you had posted the recording first without telling
anyone what the tuning was based on, to see what they had guessed.

If you feel up for trying another "strange" scale, how about the
difference tones of subharmonics 1-8? Lots of 3, 5 and 7-limit
intervals with no obvious centre or systematic relation between them.
This is the ratios of the difference tones, covering 5 and a half octave:

15 20 28 35 42 48 63 70 90 105 112 140 160 175 210 252 280 300 315 420
560 630 672 700 720 735

The sum tones would be perfect because they cover exactly 3 octaves:

210 225 240 245 260 273 280 288 308 315 330 336 350 378 385 400 420
448 490 525 540 560 588 630 645 700 840 945 960 980 1008 1050 1120
1260 1680

/Ö

Hi Mats-

> I've tried out using primes 11-43 myself, and found it surprising how
> well the primes "approximate" other more commmon just intervals.

Yes this is interesting. The question for the math wizzes would be why is
this the case?

> I noticed you kept very strongly to diatonic structures in this piece,
> in fact if i hadn't been informed about it, i would probably have
> guessed that it was 12-tet with a bad tuning! Might have been
> interesting if you had posted the recording first without telling
> anyone what the tuning was based on, to see what they had guessed.

Microtonal pieces often sound like "out of tune" 12tet to people who cannot
hear different step sizes.

jenkuya

Dante

> > I've tried out using primes 11-43 myself, and found it
> > surprising how well the primes "approximate" other more
> > commmon just intervals.
>
> Yes this is interesting. The question for the math wizzes
> would be why is this the case?

It just depends on the human hearing system -- how many
ratios can it recognize, and how much error it it willing
to accept? There are various ways to answer these questions.
Some say the acceptable error for each ratio depends on the
complexity of the ratio...

Harmonic entropy is one way to answer these questions. Here's
Paul's simplest intro to the concept:

http://www.soundofindia.com/showarticle.asp?in_article_id=1905806937

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" <dante@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mats-
>
> > I've tried out using primes 11-43 myself, and found it surprising how
> > well the primes "approximate" other more commmon just intervals.
>
> Yes this is interesting. The question for the math wizzes would be
why is
> this the case?

It will be hard to explain this unless a more precise statement is
made. What, exactly, are you claiming?

> > > I've tried out using primes 11-43 myself, and found it
surprising how
> > > well the primes "approximate" other more commmon just intervals.
> >
> > Yes this is interesting. The question for the math wizzes would be
> why is
> > this the case?
>
> It will be hard to explain this unless a more precise statement is
> made. What, exactly, are you claiming?

I guess, that a disproportionally large amount of intervals between
these primes are closer to basic 3,5 and 7-limit intervals, than what
could be expected out of "random" intervals?

Hi Dante,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" wrote:
>
> Jagshemash-
>
> I have a new webpagelet up with info about, and a pic of, the Prime
Guitar,

What a neat idea! Why did you start from 17, instead of perhaps 11 or
13 (both also under-explored)? You tempt me to make a similar
experiment.

> and an mp3 of a piece.

Wish I could hear it! But unfortunately, I can't get any of your music
hosted at nagarjuna at the moment (I also tried the 21 tone pieces); I
first tried several hours ago, so I wonder can it just be the web site.

However, I've copied your tab pages for "Arbor Low" and will try it out
on the synth. Do you have tab for "Jagshemash"?

> my name-a Dante, I hope-a you like my musics piece. jenkuya.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/dante.interport//primeguitar.htm
>
PS - Your essay on visualisation techniques for performance is *a pearl
beyond price*! The only way to be sure of getting safely to the end of
any piece is to know all the steps you take - not the arrivals, but the
transitions, the moves themselves. I was taught piano by Kathleen
Brady, who insisted that to properly prepare a piece, the hand _must
not move_ until you know precisely _how_ it will move. That one piece
of knowledge gave me any fluency I may now possess.

Regards,
Yahya

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mats �ljare <oljare@...> wrote:

> > It will be hard to explain this unless a more precise statement is
> > made. What, exactly, are you claiming?
>
> I guess, that a disproportionally large amount of intervals between
> these primes are closer to basic 3,5 and 7-limit intervals, than what
> could be expected out of "random" intervals?

Why do you think that?

Hi Yahya-

> What a neat idea! Why did you start from 17, instead of perhaps 11 or
> 13 (both also under-explored)? You tempt me to make a similar
> experiment.

it was a matter of filling up the 3 1/2 octaves, and not having either too
empty lower strings or frets too close together in the upper range.

> > and an mp3 of a piece.
>
> Wish I could hear it! But unfortunately, I can't get any of your music
> hosted at nagarjuna at the moment (I also tried the 21 tone pieces); I
> first tried several hours ago, so I wonder can it just be the web site.
>
> However, I've copied your tab pages for "Arbor Low" and will try it out
> on the synth. Do you have tab for "Jagshemash"?

Thats strange since the jpgs of the tab reside in the same location as the
mp3, did you you try right click and save on the link? You could also try
getting the mp3 from the folder:

http://nagarjuna.onlinestoragesolution.com/new%20ji/

The tab for "Jagshemash" was stolen and is being used to wrap Potassium in
Kazakhstan.

> PS - Your essay on visualisation techniques for performance is *a pearl
> beyond price*! The only way to be sure of getting safely to the end of
> any piece is to know all the steps you take - not the arrivals, but the
> transitions, the moves themselves. I was taught piano by Kathleen
> Brady, who insisted that to properly prepare a piece, the hand _must
> not move_ until you know precisely _how_ it will move. That one piece
> of knowledge gave me any fluency I may now possess.

Glad you liked the essay. Playing an instrument is mostly mental, and only
secondarily physical. I find that if i can play the piece in my head lying
in bed at night and clearly hear every detail as well as mentally see and
feel my hands playing it, then when i sit down to play it on guitar it goes
pretty smoothly.

Dante

Hi Dante,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dante Rosati" wrote:
>
> Jagshemash-
>
> I have a new webpagelet up with info about, and a pic of, the Prime
Guitar,

What a neat idea! Why did you start from 17, instead of perhaps 11 or
13 (both also under-explored)? You tempt me to make a similar
experiment.

> and an mp3 of a piece.

Wish I could hear it! But unfortunately, I can't get any of your music
hosted at nagarjuna at the moment (I also tried the 21 tone pieces); I
first tried several hours ago, so I wonder can it just be the web site.

However, I've copied your tab pages for "Arbor Low" and will try it out
on the synth. Do you have tab for "Jagshemash"?

> my name-a Dante, I hope-a you like my musics piece. jenkuya.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/dante.interport//primeguitar.htm
>
PS - Your essay on visualisation techniques for performance is *a pearl
beyond price*! The only way to be sure of getting safely to the end of
any piece is to know all the steps you take - not the arrivals, but the
transitions, the moves themselves. I was taught piano by Kathleen
Brady, who insisted that to properly prepare a piece, the hand _must
not move_ until you know precisely _how_ it will move. That one piece
of knowledge gave me any fluency I may now possess.

Regards,
Yahya