Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Marco Polo and Magellan

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "lorenzofrizzera"
<lorenzo.frizzera@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> I'm doing a composition which includes a song dedicated to Marco
Polo
> and another one for Magellan. Each of these song is made by four
parts.
>
> So I would need four microtonal scales for each one of these
explorers
> as a musical/cultural synthesis of their trip through East and
West.
> Is it possible?
>
> Can someone help me?
>
> Lorenzo
>

Come on you guys, this is a great question, where's the deluge of
answers?

Can't help you much but here's a start for Marco Polo:

http://www.hr/darko/etf/et12.html#glag

He was born on the island city/fortress of KorÄula, now in Dalmatia,
Croatia (then in the Venetian sphere) and this is the indigenous
music so to speak. Venetian records don't specify his birthplace
further than "Dalmatia", I believe- at any rate, this is still the
music of the time and place.

-Cameron Bobro

🔗Lorenzo Frizzera <lorenzo.frizzera@cdmrovereto.it>

Hi.

>Come on you guys, this is a great question, where's the deluge of
>answers?

>Can't help you much but here's a start for Marco Polo:
>http://www.hr/darko/etf/et12.html#glag

Thanks Cameron!

>He was born on the island city/fortress of KorÄula, now in Dalmatia,
>Croatia (then in the Venetian sphere) and this is the indigenous
>music so to speak. Venetian records don't specify his birthplace
>further than "Dalmatia", I believe- at any rate, this is still the
>music of the time and place.

I think he was frome Venice and than he was captured by Genova during a battle in Korcula (against Venice). During the imprisonment Rustichello da Pisa, which was with him in the prison, wrotes his stories in the book "Il Milione".
So the link you gave is a good end point rather than a beginning point.

Lorenzo

,_._,___

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Frizzera"
<lorenzo.frizzera@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> >Come on you guys, this is a great question, where's the deluge of
> >answers?
>
> >Can't help you much but here's a start for Marco Polo:
> >http://www.hr/darko/etf/et12.html#glag
>
> Thanks Cameron!
>
> >He was born on the island city/fortress of KorÄula, now in
Dalmatia,
> >Croatia (then in the Venetian sphere) and this is the indigenous
> >music so to speak. Venetian records don't specify his birthplace
> >further than "Dalmatia", I believe- at any rate, this is still
the
> >music of the time and place.
>
> I think he was frome Venice and than he was captured by Genova
during a battle in Korcula (against Venice). During the imprisonment
Rustichello da Pisa, which was with him in the prison, wrotes his
stories in the book "Il Milione".
> So the link you gave is a good end point rather than a beginning
point.
>
> Lorenzo
>
> ,_._,___
>

Nope, he was definitely born in Dalmatia, even according to Venetian
sources, and almost certainly on KorÄula (the de Polo house is a
museum there now). :-) "From Venice" is innaccurate, but "Venetian"
is okay, because at that time Dalmatia was more or less a part
of "Venice"; if you look on a map you'll see how the logic of the
Venetian rule along the seacoast of the Adriatic.

The thorny issue (for quarrelsome nationalists) is probably this, I
suspect: although Polo was definitely Dalmatian, which means you
could probably call him either Dalmatian or Venetian and please or
irk the same amount of people, KorÄula had some special deals with
Venice at that time, so it was like a protectorate, or semi-
independent, don't know the details.

Yes I spend a great deal of time in museums and historical buildings
when I'm in Dalmatia. :-)

But he was living in Constantinople as a young? man so that's
another starting point.

-Cameron Bobro

🔗Daniel Wolf <djwolf@snafu.de>

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
>
> Much of Marco Polo's _Travels_ is complete fiction, writing about
places
> he had obviously never been. Rather than trying to recreate
historical
> tunings he may never have heard, doesn't this make a more
interesting
> compositional opportunity -- to invent tunings and music for
places that
> never existed in the first place?
>
> DJW

Well common sense explains Marco Polo quite well, it's obviously a
collection of travellers' stories. "Much" is also history,
regardless of whether Polo as an individual saw it first hand. Which
isn't very important- the individual in relation to history was a
very different thing before the days of selling movie rights and
such. ("Herodotus" for example, or, in the case of our very own
tuning group, "Pythagoras").

And of course there's also the potential of accidentally creating a
piece of full-blown science-fiction even if you try to be as
historically accurate as possible, so I say the idea of finding
relevant historical tunings is great.

-Cameron Bobro

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗VITAL ALTCHEH <alcher@rogers.com>

Constantinople.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Marco Polo and Magellan

> The city's official name by that date under Ottoman sovereignty was
> Konstantiniyye.
>
> Oz.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "misterbobro" <misterbobro@yahoo.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 17 Ekim 2006 Salï¿½ 12:23
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Marco Polo and Magellan
>
> SNIP
>
> But he was living in Constantinople as a young? man so that's
> another starting point.
>
> -Cameron Bobro
>
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
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🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗Lorenzo Frizzera <lorenzo.frizzera@cdmrovereto.it>

I have to rearrange some things about Marco Polo...!
I went to Korcula some years ago but I did'nt went to the museum :-) (I prefer swimming)

Here is the wikipedia which also includes things about Kurzola naval battle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo#Il_Milione

In Venice there was a palace of Polo's family http://www.archeosub.it/articoli/venezia/malibran.htm
where today there is a very important teather (malibran). From these studies it comes that Marco lived there...
But in Korcula there is a Marco Polo's house too: http://www.korculainfo.com/marco_polo_korcula.htm
So I'm confused.

About scales I'm interested in finding four scales which in some way represents a travel to east and not properly the scales of 1270 A.C.
I would need four scales which are the synthesis of east (I know it is very hard!). Probably they have to represent China, India, Middle East and Mongolia...

Also I would need the same for Magellan: Portugal, Tierra del fuego, Philippine Islands, Capo Verde.

Lorenzo

----- Original Message -----
From: misterbobro
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Marco Polo and Magellan

Yes I spend a great deal of time in museums and historical buildings
when I'm in Dalmatia. :-)

But he was living in Constantinople as a young? man so that's
another starting point.

-Cameron Bobro

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Frizzera"
<lorenzo.frizzera@...> wrote:
>
> I have to rearrange some things about Marco Polo...!
> I went to Korcula some years ago but I did'nt went to the museum :-
) (I prefer swimming)

Swimming of course, the water is so good you can swim right there at
the base of the walls then go up the stairs for a beer. :-) We camp
a lot in Dalmatia.

I think it's like this- Polo was born in Dalmatia (part of Venetian
territory) but later had a palace in Venice.

If you could get someone to measure the fretting off an old
tamburica, saz, and related instruments moving east, you'd be in
style- a good photo in a museum would be okay (since you're
measuring proportions). Curators in out-of-the- way museums love
maniacal visitors with specific scholarly requests, they'll surely
let you photograph (or even measure directly).

As far as Magellen, can't help, except one bizarre fact (?), which I
remember (but can't verify or reference now because the book I read
it in is in Graz over the border). Apparently one of the indigenous
peoples of Tierra Del Fuego/Patagonia has music almost entirely
rhythmic. The ethnomusicology book was discussing the almost
universal presence of octaves and fifths, and some kind of scale in
general, around the world, and noted this group of people as an
exception.

But- some of the cultures which were there when Magellen was have
died off. What if this "fact" came from an explorer's or colonist's
observation and not a recent documented ethnomusicological study? In
the wonderful "African Polyrythm and Polyphony" text, there's a
humorous bit comparing a explorer from a previous century's
observation about Central African horn hocketting (uncontrolled
noise) with what it actually is (unbelievably precise, consistent,
and complex music making).

It's interesting that a few moments of simple common sense and a
sense of fairness reveals how difficult your project is.

-Cameron Bobro

>
> Here is the wikipedia which also includes things about Kurzola
naval battle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo#Il_Milione
>
> In Venice there was a palace of Polo's family
http://www.archeosub.it/articoli/venezia/malibran.htm
> where today there is a very important teather (malibran). From
these studies it comes that Marco lived there...
> But in Korcula there is a Marco Polo's house too:
http://www.korculainfo.com/marco_polo_korcula.htm
> So I'm confused.
>
> About scales I'm interested in finding four scales which in some
way represents a travel to east and not properly the scales of 1270
A.C.
> I would need four scales which are the synthesis of east (I know
it is very hard!). Probably they have to represent China, India,
Middle East and Mongolia...
>
> Also I would need the same for Magellan: Portugal, Tierra del
fuego, Philippine Islands, Capo Verde.
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: misterbobro
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:23 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Marco Polo and Magellan
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Lorenzo Frizzera"
> <lorenzo.frizzera@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > >Come on you guys, this is a great question, where's the
deluge of
> > >answers?
> >
> > >Can't help you much but here's a start for Marco Polo:
> > >http://www.hr/darko/etf/et12.html#glag
> >
> > Thanks Cameron!
> >
> > >He was born on the island city/fortress of KorÄula, now in
> Dalmatia,
> > >Croatia (then in the Venetian sphere) and this is the
indigenous
> > >music so to speak. Venetian records don't specify his
birthplace
> > >further than "Dalmatia", I believe- at any rate, this is
still
> the
> > >music of the time and place.
> >
> > I think he was frome Venice and than he was captured by Genova
> during a battle in Korcula (against Venice). During the
imprisonment
> Rustichello da Pisa, which was with him in the prison, wrotes
his
> stories in the book "Il Milione".
> > So the link you gave is a good end point rather than a
beginning
> point.
> >
> > Lorenzo
> >
> > ,_._,___
> >
>
> Nope, he was definitely born in Dalmatia, even according to
Venetian
> sources, and almost certainly on KorÄula (the de Polo house is a
> museum there now). :-) "From Venice" is innaccurate,
but "Venetian"
> is okay, because at that time Dalmatia was more or less a part
> of "Venice"; if you look on a map you'll see how the logic of
the
> Venetian rule along the seacoast of the Adriatic.
>
> The thorny issue (for quarrelsome nationalists) is probably
this, I
> suspect: although Polo was definitely Dalmatian, which means you
> could probably call him either Dalmatian or Venetian and please
or
> irk the same amount of people, KorÄula had some special deals
with
> Venice at that time, so it was like a protectorate, or semi-
> independent, don't know the details.
>
> Yes I spend a great deal of time in museums and historical
buildings
> when I'm in Dalmatia. :-)
>
> But he was living in Constantinople as a young? man so that's
> another starting point.
>
> -Cameron Bobro
>

Marco Polo and Magellan

🔗lorenzofrizzera <lorenzo.frizzera@cdmrovereto.it>

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>

🔗Lorenzo Frizzera <lorenzo.frizzera@cdmrovereto.it>

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>

🔗Daniel Wolf <djwolf@snafu.de>

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗VITAL ALTCHEH <alcher@rogers.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗Lorenzo Frizzera <lorenzo.frizzera@cdmrovereto.it>

🔗misterbobro <misterbobro@yahoo.com>