Peterson Autostrobe

Yo, I've already stored George's excellent TX tuning:

George Secor's rational 5/23-comma temperament extraordinaire
|
0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
1: 390/371 86.466
2: 3321/2968 194.552
3: 4397/3710 294.120
4: 929/742 389.111
5: 2476/1855 499.911
6: 8325/5936 585.551
7: 555/371 697.282
8: 9365/5936 789.345
9: 621/371 891.809
10: 9904/5565 997.956
11: 5559/2968 1086.401
12: 2/1 1200.000 octave

Making sure that A equalled 440 Hz with zero cents offset, I entered the
following values when storing in memory the SECR temperament:

C +8.2
# -5.3
D +2.7
# +2.3
E -2.7
F +8.1
# -6.3
G +5.5
# -2.5
A 0.0
# +6.1
B -5.4

The deviations are in reference to 12-EDO, I suppose. I hope I got
everything right. Today, we'll tune a Bechstein grand in my house according
to this setting.

Cordially,
Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 20 Eyl�l 2006 �ar�amba 20:38
Subject: [tuning] Re: Raised third more harmonic than just or 12edo major
third.

> > BTW, I just acquired a Peterson Autostrobe 590 tuner. I would
> > appreciate any hints and tips on how best to make good use of
> > the gadget. Does anyone else possess the tuner? Carl, you
> > perhaps?
>
> I have a 590. It's a good piece of equipment. I've had it
> for years. I've tuned several pianos with it... it's not
> ideal for this, but it works better most cheaper solutions.
> I mainly use it for tuning my slide guitar. I don't have
> any particular tips, really. Unless they've updated it,
> you'll need to store your 79-tone scale in several of the
> 12-tone memory slots.
>
> -Carl
>

Good luck!

Say, waitaminute, this tuning isn't in my file of George's
tunings. I have 24a, 24b, and VRWT. What's TX? Oh, maybe
I don't have it down because it's an extraordinaire.
George, what is your best extraordinaire, and what's the
difference between an extraordinaire and an ordinaire?

-Carl

> Yo, I've already stored George's excellent TX tuning:
>
> George Secor's rational 5/23-comma temperament extraordinaire
> |
> 0: 1/1 0.000 unison, perfect prime
> 1: 390/371 86.466
> 2: 3321/2968 194.552
> 3: 4397/3710 294.120
> 4: 929/742 389.111
> 5: 2476/1855 499.911
> 6: 8325/5936 585.551
> 7: 555/371 697.282
> 8: 9365/5936 789.345
> 9: 621/371 891.809
> 10: 9904/5565 997.956
> 11: 5559/2968 1086.401
> 12: 2/1 1200.000 octave
>
> Making sure that A equalled 440 Hz with zero cents offset, I
entered the
> following values when storing in memory the SECR temperament:
>
> C +8.2
> # -5.3
> D +2.7
> # +2.3
> E -2.7
> F +8.1
> # -6.3
> G +5.5
> # -2.5
> A 0.0
> # +6.1
> B -5.4
>
> The deviations are in reference to 12-EDO, I suppose. I hope I got
> everything right. Today, we'll tune a Bechstein grand in my house
according
> to this setting.
>
> Cordially,
> Oz.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 20 Eylül 2006 Çarþamba 20:38
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Raised third more harmonic than just or 12edo
major
> third.
>
>
> > > BTW, I just acquired a Peterson Autostrobe 590 tuner. I would
> > > appreciate any hints and tips on how best to make good use of
> > > the gadget. Does anyone else possess the tuner? Carl, you
> > > perhaps?
> >
> > I have a 590. It's a good piece of equipment. I've had it
> > for years. I've tuned several pianos with it... it's not
> > ideal for this, but it works better most cheaper solutions.
> > I mainly use it for tuning my slide guitar. I don't have
> > any particular tips, really. Unless they've updated it,
> > you'll need to store your 79-tone scale in several of the
> > 12-tone memory slots.
> >
> > -Carl
> >
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> Good luck!
>
> Say, waitaminute, this tuning isn't in my file of George's
> tunings. I have 24a, 24b, and VRWT. What's TX? Oh, maybe
> I don't have it down because it's an extraordinaire.
> George, what is your best extraordinaire, and what's the
> difference between an extraordinaire and an ordinaire?
>
> -Carl

Hi Carl (and Oz),

I'm happy to see that the many hours I've spent in constructing and
improving upon well-temperaments and _temperaments extraordinaires_
have amounted to more than 'fun and games' in that at least a couple
of other people have found something useful therein. Thanks for
taking the time to try out some of these.

TX is short for _temperament extraordinaire_, and since I coined the
term (here):
/tuning/topicId_59689.html#59999
I guess it's about time I came up with a specific definition.

A _temperament ordinaire_ (TO) differs from a strict well-temperament
(WT) in that it has one or more fifths wider than just (but no fifth
as wide as a meantone diesis), which allows less overall error in the
best triads. Since a TX has one or more wide fifths, it's also a TO,
but it differs in that: 1) it has no fifth wider than a quarter-
comma; and 2) it has proportional beating in its 8 best major triads
(i.e., Eb thru E, and also in at least a few of the best minor
triads).

I have 3 different TX's here:
/tuning-math/files/secor/scl/
The files are Secor1_5TX.scl, Secor5_23TX.scl, and Secor1_4TX.scl, in
which the narrowest fifths are tempered by approximately 1/5, 5/23,
and 1/4-comma, respectively. I've listed these here in order of
lower-to-higher key contrast. All of the tones are defined by
rational ratios, and all of the wide fifths have significantly less
error than 1/4-comma.

As to which TX is "best" depends on: 1) how much your music strays to
the far side of the circle of fifths and 2) how much tempering you
judge "acceptable" in the worst triads (this may change from day to
day, and also according to how much time you've spent playing these
temperaments -- I've found myself getting more accustomed to wider-
than-Pythagorean major 3rds with the passage of time).

If you ask me which is my favorite, I'd have to agree with Oz on the
5/23-comma one; it has just about the right amount of key contrast
for my taste.

One question you didn't ask is: which is my best well-temperament?
IMO, it's not among the three you have (although I think that VRWT is
one of the two best -- please note: not originally mine, only my
modification of *Ellis's #2*). I give top honors to the 5/23-comma
WT (Secor5_23WT), with 7 just fifths (easy to tune by ear) and
proportional (or very-nearly-proportional) beating on 22 (out of 24)
major & minor triads.

How is 5/23WT superior to 24a & 24b? Notice that, between them, the
latter have 3 fifths tempered by >6 cents, whereas the narrowest
fifth in 5/23WT is tempered 5.24c. Apart from the lower amount of
tempering of G-D and B-F# in 5/23WT, I think you'll be hard pressed
to hear any difference between 5/23WT and 24b.

--George

I've never heard a better Secor temperament than 5-23 TX. It beats just
right.

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 22 Eyl�l 2006 Cuma 21:21
Subject: [tuning] Best TX? (was Peterson Autostrobe)

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Say, waitaminute, this tuning isn't in my file of George's
> > tunings. I have 24a, 24b, and VRWT. What's TX? Oh, maybe
> > I don't have it down because it's an extraordinaire.
> > George, what is your best extraordinaire, and what's the
> > difference between an extraordinaire and an ordinaire?
> >
> > -Carl
>
> Hi Carl (and Oz),
>
> I'm happy to see that the many hours I've spent in constructing and
> improving upon well-temperaments and _temperaments extraordinaires_
> have amounted to more than 'fun and games' in that at least a couple
> of other people have found something useful therein. Thanks for
> taking the time to try out some of these.
>
> TX is short for _temperament extraordinaire_, and since I coined the
> term (here):
> /tuning/topicId_59689.html#59999
> I guess it's about time I came up with a specific definition.
>
> A _temperament ordinaire_ (TO) differs from a strict well-temperament
> (WT) in that it has one or more fifths wider than just (but no fifth
> as wide as a meantone diesis), which allows less overall error in the
> best triads. Since a TX has one or more wide fifths, it's also a TO,
> but it differs in that: 1) it has no fifth wider than a quarter-
> comma; and 2) it has proportional beating in its 8 best major triads
> (i.e., Eb thru E, and also in at least a few of the best minor
> triads).
>
> I have 3 different TX's here:
> /tuning-math/files/secor/scl/
> The files are Secor1_5TX.scl, Secor5_23TX.scl, and Secor1_4TX.scl, in
> which the narrowest fifths are tempered by approximately 1/5, 5/23,
> and 1/4-comma, respectively. I've listed these here in order of
> lower-to-higher key contrast. All of the tones are defined by
> rational ratios, and all of the wide fifths have significantly less
> error than 1/4-comma.
>
> As to which TX is "best" depends on: 1) how much your music strays to
> the far side of the circle of fifths and 2) how much tempering you
> judge "acceptable" in the worst triads (this may change from day to
> day, and also according to how much time you've spent playing these
> temperaments -- I've found myself getting more accustomed to wider-
> than-Pythagorean major 3rds with the passage of time).
>
> If you ask me which is my favorite, I'd have to agree with Oz on the
> 5/23-comma one; it has just about the right amount of key contrast
> for my taste.
>
> One question you didn't ask is: which is my best well-temperament?
> IMO, it's not among the three you have (although I think that VRWT is
> one of the two best -- please note: not originally mine, only my
> modification of *Ellis's #2*). I give top honors to the 5/23-comma
> WT (Secor5_23WT), with 7 just fifths (easy to tune by ear) and
> proportional (or very-nearly-proportional) beating on 22 (out of 24)
> major & minor triads.
>
> How is 5/23WT superior to 24a & 24b? Notice that, between them, the
> latter have 3 fifths tempered by >6 cents, whereas the narrowest
> fifth in 5/23WT is tempered 5.24c. Apart from the lower amount of
> tempering of G-D and B-F# in 5/23WT, I think you'll be hard pressed
> to hear any difference between 5/23WT and 24b.
>
> --George
>
>

> TX is short for _temperament extraordinaire_,
//
> A _temperament ordinaire_ (TO) differs from a strict well-
> temperament (WT) in that it has one or more fifths wider
> than just (but no fifth as wide as a meantone diesis), which
> allows less overall error in the best triads. Since a TX
> has one or more wide fifths, it's also a TO, but it differs
> in that: 1) it has no fifth wider than a quarter-comma; and
> 2) it has proportional beating in its 8 best major triads
> (i.e., Eb thru E, and also in at least a few of the best minor
> triads).

Thanks for the explanation!

> One question you didn't ask is: which is my best well-temperament?
> IMO, it's not among the three you have (although I think that
> VRWT is one of the two best -- please note: not originally mine,
> only my modification of *Ellis's #2*). I give top honors to the
> 5/23-comma WT (Secor5_23WT), with 7 just fifths (easy to tune by
> ear) and proportional (or very-nearly-proportional) beating on 22
> (out of 24) major & minor triads.

Thanks for offerring this. I'll add it to my file.

-Carl

> > One question you didn't ask is: which is my best well-
> > temperament? IMO, it's not among the three you have (although
> > I think that VRWT is one of the two best -- please note: not
> > originally mine, only my modification of *Ellis's #2*). I
> > give top honors to the 5/23-comma WT (Secor5_23WT), with 7
> > just fifths (easy to tune by ear) and proportional (or
> > very-nearly-proportional) beating on 22 (out of 24) major
> > & minor triads.
>
> Thanks for offerring this. I'll add it to my file.

By the way George, did you see

/tuning/topicId_67392.html#67392

?

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@...> wrote:
>
> By the way George, did you see
>
> /tuning/topicId_67392.html#67392
>
> ?
>
> -Carl

Yes, I did (both the message and the spreadsheet). My thoughts are
pretty well summed up in your last paragraph, along with the
observation that the more of these temperaments you listen to, the
better you will be able to interpret the numbers (and know what to look
for).

--George