Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning The composer's intent

>From: John Starrett <jstarret@math.cudenver.edu>
>
>However, the dicussion here seems to be taking a repressive tone.
>Am I missing something, or are some of you actually saying that it is
>wrong to experiment with tuning?

I think I've heard the same thing.

When we talk about following the composer's intention we must remember that
any notation system is inherently incomplete, so a composer always relies
on the intelligence and musicality of his performers. At least that's what
I do. (If you're writing for a sequencer I guess you'd better count on its
lack of intelligence, lack of musicality, and completely literal
interpretation of your instructions.) For my singers I find that it is
often better to not try to be so complete in my instructions. For example,
when arranging Bydlo (Ox Cart) from Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition,
I carefully copied all of Mussorgsky's eighth-note rests, many of which
simply indicate phrasing. Well, my singers were so careful not to sing
through the rests that they ruined the phrasing! So I rewrote the
arrangement without the rests, forcing my singers to find the phrasing. Of
course I wished that my singers had exercised more intelligence in their
interpretation of the rests, but in any case I think my example shows how a
less complete set of instructions can lead to better results.

We must also remember that the composer himself might not fully know his
intention. (Is this dangerous ground? Let me go further: A composer, if he
is any good, simply does his best to give instructions to others to
recreate sounds that he has imagined, and might make mistakes in
transcribing his imagination or might be misunderstood.) On several
occasions I've had the extremely satisfying experience of hearing one of my
singers, even in an audition, sing something I wrote in such a way that I
felt as if I had been shown something about my music. What a pleasure that
was. I wish that all of you could have performances like that.

John Link

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Watch for the CD "Live at Saint Peter's" by John Link's vocal quintet,
featuring original compositions as well as arrangements of instrumental
music by Chick Corea, Miles Davis, Claude Debussy, Bill Evans, Ennio and
Andrea Morricone, Modeste Mussorgsky, Erik Satie, and Earl Zindars.

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🔗Afmmjr@xxx.xxx

In a message dated 12/7/99 5:34:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
johnlink@con2.com writes:

<< A composer, if he
is any good, simply does his best to give instructions to others to
recreate sounds that he has imagined, and might make mistakes in
transcribing his imagination or might be misunderstood. >>

There are deeper levels, which I am sure you will recognize. For example, it
is more than to "recreate sounds" for there is phrasing, and there is period
performance practice, and there is balance of timbre and dynamics -
independent of notation and based on the venue...

Perhaps a metaphor - if I was a sculptor and sculpted a masterpiece and sold
it to one of you, could you add a little clay of your own before exhibiting
it under the original artist's name?

About Bach, please, Switch-On, no problem. I'm just very sensitive to
distortions that defeat the intent of the composer. Granted, it's not easy
to know the intent. But if you do, it makes sense to honor that intent if
performance is your profession.

Johnny Reinhard
AFMM

🔗johnlink@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

>From: Afmmjr@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/7/99 5:34:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>johnlink@con2.com writes:
>
><< A composer, if he
> is any good, simply does his best to give instructions to others to
> recreate sounds that he has imagined, and might make mistakes in
> transcribing his imagination or might be misunderstood. >>
>
>There are deeper levels, which I am sure you will recognize. For example, it
>is more than to "recreate sounds" for there is phrasing, and there is period
>performance practice, and there is balance of timbre and dynamics -
>independent of notation and based on the venue...

Did I write "recreate sounds"? "SOUNDS"? That doesn't sound like me at all,
yet there it is in my message! (I actually checked to find out whether I
wrote "recreate sounds".) I should have written "recreate music that he has
imagined", which of course involves phrasing and other aspects of the
music.

>Perhaps a metaphor - if I was a sculptor and sculpted a masterpiece and sold
>it to one of you, could you add a little clay of your own before exhibiting
>it under the original artist's name?

I wouldn't do such a thing, and to anyone who would I would say "Keep your
clay to yourself!". But the metaphor isn't quite applicable. To stay in the
domain of sculture we'd have to assume that instead of sculpting a
masterpiece you had written instructions for the creation of a masterpiece.
In such a case different sculptors working from your instructions would
supply not a little bit of clay but ALL the clay, and as they fashioned it
with their hands would undoubtedly produce a variety of realizations of
your plan, as cooks do with recipes.

>About Bach, please, Switch-On, no problem. I'm just very sensitive to
>distortions that defeat the intent of the composer. Granted, it's not easy
>to know the intent. But if you do, it makes sense to honor that intent if
>performance is your profession.

I am in complete agreement with you. When I arrange solo piano works for
voices it is my intention to stay true to the composer's intention as best
as I understand it. I don't, for example, try to "jazz up" old classics. I
find that so silly. My arrangment of Bach's "Wachet Auf" expands his melody
line into a four more-or-less parallel voices. I was very careful in
harmonizing the melody to choose chords that sounded like I think Bach
would have used had he made an SATB harmonization. I was guided by the
figured bass and I listened carefully for the appropriateness of the
chords. Sometimes I would write a chord that might be appropriate to some
other style, and I would immediately reject it. By this sort of attention
to detail I believe I created an arrangement that would please Bach, and
maybe even surprise him at the same time. *I* was surprised at some of the
chords that presented themselves this way.

John Link

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🔗johnlink@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

I'd like to share some passages from Leonard Berstein' book "The Infinite
Variety of Music" that I consider relevant to our discussion:

"...if I deliberately sit down to write an American piece of music, I think
I am likely to write a pretty bad one. If what occurs to me unconsciously
happens to come out sounding American, if it happens to borrow from jazz,
chances are it'll be a better piece. This has been proved over and over
again, because whatever will derive from American or Americanisms will be
more integral, will be a more organic part of the music. I could make up a
theme that's about as dull a theme as you can think of. I sit down and
write this tune and say, "That's awfully dull and besides it doesn't sound
American." Now how can I Americanize it? Well, I can apply a little jazz
technique to it. Let's say instead of a square rhythm I write the same
thing with a boogie beat. That's easy. Now it begins to have a little more
personality and a little more interest. I could make it even more jazzy;
there are all kind of things I could do. I'm doing these all very
consciously because of a knowledge of how to do them.

"I have some friends in the composing world who compose this way, and there
have always been composers who compose this way, and there have always been
writers who write this way, and painters who paint this way. And they come
up with a piece finally that can almost be convincing. Now, let's
say-supposing you hadn't gone through that little process with me-I come
into Carnegie Hall about to play a piece, a new piece you've never heard.
Let's say I start with a grandiose introduction in Hollywood style, which
*could* be pretty impressive in Carnegie Hall, at least to some people.
Actually, I've done nothing. I wouldn't give you two cents for it. But this
kind of music appears all the time and not only passes muster but causes a
lot of excitement. You can always tell whether it has come from an inner or
an outer place. And the people who can tell best, strangely enough, are not
the critics and not other composers, but the public. In the long run, the
public is a very sure-footed little beast, if it's a beast at all, that
knows exactly whether it is getting the "McCoy" or not. Even if they hate
the music, they know it's the "McCoy." Even if they are listening to a
quartet by Webern and they don't like Webern, they know that it's real,
that Webern was a real composer. And the reason for this is that they can
sense the communication. They can tell the music that comes from an inner
place and wasn't just made up out of somebody's head.

I've got a little list of other things that can influence the trance and
the concept, and I'd like to run through it without discussing anything in
great detail.
...a fashionable trend of the time
...What will the critics say?
...What will my fellow composers say?
...What was my last work?
...the dictate of social structures
...the influences of other arts
...How much time do I have to write this thing?
...that censor within the mind that says
'Do not do that, it's derivative....
Do not do that, it's out of style....
Do not do that, it's vulgar.'

...All of these things that I have mentioned do operate legitimately in
every composer. The difference between a good and bad operation is only
that proportion equivalent to unconscious versus conscious. It's all
according to how blithely he decides he's going to put one of his
principles into motion. If he doesn't decide anything, he's lucky. If he
*has* to decide, then probably he's no composer at all."

>From Leonard Berstein, "The Infinite Variety of Music", Simon and Schuster,
(c)1966, pp. 277-280.

I hope that you find this interesting and inspiring. I sure do. And I think
they are as relevant for arrangers and performers as they are for
composers.

John Link

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🔗John Link <johnlink@con2.com>

>From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@home.com>
>
>I've got to agree with KG here: do something new folks!

I believe that I am doing just that, both with my compositions and my vocal
arrangements of instrumental works. I'll let you know when the CD is ready
so that you can judge for yourself.

John Link

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🔗mandlixon <mandldixon@xxxxxx.xxx.xxx>

In agreement with John I have had some contact with composers who prefer an
intuitive approach to intonation, simply asking for the performers to listen
carefully, make the intervals as pure as possible and use their own
judgment. As one example I arranged a piece, written for 12 celli by Sarah
Hopkins, for nine horns and didjeridu. The piece asks for harmonics in the
last 3-4 minutes and in order to make it fit as well as I could into a
concert of JI music I specified particular tunings for the earlier sections.
This ended up much more specific than the composer had considered - not that
she complained, however I went to more trouble than she thought necessary.

We have enough trouble playing in tune (not to mention in time) with each
other that using the ears alone often does not do the trick. A little
instruction can go a long way as can a little training.

Michael Hugh Dixon

>When we talk about following the composer's intention we must remember that
>any notation system is inherently incomplete, so a composer always relies
>on the intelligence and musicality of his performers. At least that's what
>I do.
>
>We must also remember that the composer himself might not fully know his
>intention. (Is this dangerous ground? Let me go further: A composer, if he
>is any good, simply does his best to give instructions to others to
>recreate sounds that he has imagined, and might make mistakes in
>transcribing his imagination or might be misunderstood.) On several
>occasions I've had the extremely satisfying experience of hearing one of my
>singers, even in an audition, sing something I wrote in such a way that I
>felt as if I had been shown something about my music. What a pleasure that
>was. I wish that all of you could have performances like that.
>
>John Link
>
>*************************************************************************

🔗David Beardsley <xouoxno@xxxx.xxxx>

🔗johnlink@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

>From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@home.com>
>
>John Link wrote:
>
>> From: johnlink@con2.com (John Link)
>>
>> >From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@home.com>
>> >
>> >I've got to agree with KG here: do something new folks!
>>
>> I believe that I am doing just that, both with my compositions and my vocal
>> arrangements of instrumental works. I'll let you know when the CD is ready
>> so that you can judge for yourself.
>
>Send it on down...

I'll let you know when it is ready for release. I spoke with a duplicator
just an hour ago, and I'm about to apply for the mechanical licenses.

John Link

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