question about terms : diminished and augmented intervals

Hi all

A question :

Is it possible to use terms " diminished and augmented " not only as
their traditional meaning (such as augmented fourth , .....) but
generally for the term minor as a new usage without considering
traditional rules.

For example , instead of minor third we say diminished third? Mainly in
12-edo and K*12-edo systems.

If So , a neutral third would be semidiminished third or semiaugmented
diminished third ,..... .

Ivor darreg used semiaugmented fourth for 11:8 (551.31 cent) (
http://sonic-arts.org/darreg/dar8.htm )

Shaahin Mohaajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web site , click picture : <http://240edo.tripod.com/index.html>

My tombak musics in Rhythmweb: www.rhythmweb.com/gdg
<http://www.rhythmweb.com/gdg>

My articles in Harmonytalk:

- www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html
<http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html>

- www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html
<http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html>

My article in DrumDojo:

www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm
<http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm>

My musics in Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :

- A composition based on a folk melody of Shiraz region, in shur-dastgah
by Mohajeri Shahin <http://www.xenharmony.org/mp3/shaahin/shur.mp3>

- An experiment in Iranian homayun and chahargah modes by Mohajeri
Shahin <http://www.xenharmony.org/mp3/shaahin/homayun.mp3>

As the point of names and language is only for communication, just ask yourself:
what is it I'm trying to communicate? Will this help make things more straightforward?
And can I practically teach this to people and have it make sense?
And will it make communication overall more or less confusing?
And most of all, will all this work really help people communicate better than they already
do?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin" <shahinm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> A question :
>
> Is it possible to use terms " diminished and augmented " not only as
> their traditional meaning (such as augmented fourth , .....) but
> generally for the term minor as a new usage without considering
> traditional rules.
>
> For example , instead of minor third we say diminished third? Mainly in
> 12-edo and K*12-edo systems.
>
> If So , a neutral third would be semidiminished third or semiaugmented
> diminished third ,..... .
>
> Ivor darreg used semiaugmented fourth for 11:8 (551.31 cent) (
> http://sonic-arts.org/darreg/dar8.htm )
>
>
>
>
>
> Shaahin Mohaajeri
>
> Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer
>
> My web site , click picture : <http://240edo.tripod.com/index.html>
>
> My tombak musics in Rhythmweb: www.rhythmweb.com/gdg
> <http://www.rhythmweb.com/gdg>
>
> My articles in Harmonytalk:
>
> - www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html
> <http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html>
>
> - www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html
> <http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html>
>
> My article in DrumDojo:
>
> www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm
> <http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm>
>
> My musics in Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :
>
> - A composition based on a folk melody of Shiraz region, in shur-dastgah
> by Mohajeri Shahin <http://www.xenharmony.org/mp3/shaahin/shur.mp3>
>
> - An experiment in Iranian homayun and chahargah modes by Mohajeri
> Shahin <http://www.xenharmony.org/mp3/shaahin/homayun.mp3>
>

Hi Mohajeri,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin" <shahinm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> A question :
>
> Is it possible to use terms " diminished and augmented " not only as
> their traditional meaning (such as augmented fourth , .....) but
> generally for the term minor as a new usage without considering
> traditional rules.
>
> For example , instead of minor third we say diminished third?
> Mainly in 12-edo and K*12-edo systems.
>
> If So , a neutral third would be semidiminished third
> or semiaugmented diminished third ,..... .
>
> Ivor darreg used semiaugmented fourth for 11:8 (551.31 cent) (
> http://sonic-arts.org/darreg/dar8.htm )

It's probably a good idea to be familiar with the history
of this terminology before you try to adapt it to something
else.

First of all, the use of the standard interval names is
rooted in the use of the diatonic scales. For music which
uses different kinds of scales, it may not even be a good
idea to try to adapt the diatonic names.

The interval names themselves are simply ordinal numbers
which describe the number of diatonic scale degrees (inclusive)
between two pitches, which are both also assumed to be
diatonic scale notes. The old Latin names for 1st and 8th
("prime" and "octave, respectively) have been retained,
otherwise, English names are used in English communication.

Along with the ordinal-number names, intervals also may
have a qualifier indicating their size more precisely.
The important thing to know here is that some intervals
are "perfect" (that is, they come in only one "basic" size)
and the rest are "imperfect". The imperfect intervals
must be designated as either "major" or "minor", which
again, are Latin terms simply meaning "large" and "small"
respectively.

If the interval size deviates from any of these basic
perfect/imperfect sizes, then it is called "diminished"
if a semitone smaller, and "augmented" if a semitone larger.

Apologies if this is all too familiar to the readers.
But i thought it worth posting. All of these terms can
be looked up in the Tonalsoft Encyclopedia for more info.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

Mohajeri Shahin escreveu:
> Hi all
> > A question :
> > Is it possible to use terms " diminished and augmented " not only as
> their traditional meaning (such as augmented fourth , .....) but
> generally for the term minor as a new usage without considering
> traditional rules.
> > For example , instead of minor third we say diminished third? Mainly in
> 12-edo and K*12-edo systems.

Hi Mohajeri.

The problem I see is that already there are diminished/augmented thirds; thus, using those terms with a new meaning, in conflict with standard rules, is confusing.

Just think of the thirds complements: the sixths. A augmented-sixth chord is a very well-established term to be abandoned in its usual meaning. The same for the augmented second, characteristic of ``harmonic'' minor scales.

Cheers,
Hudson

> > If So , a neutral third would be semidiminished third or semiaugmented
> diminished third ,..... .
> > Ivor darreg used semiaugmented fourth for 11:8 (551.31 cent) (
> http://sonic-arts.org/darreg/dar8.htm )

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