Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Update on microtonal soft-synths

So I got into just recently e-mailing a number of developers hoping
they'd add microtuning capabilities to various soft-synths...

What an interesting experience. Most responded with some sort of
"we might look into that" message. Some, like particularly mopis-synth
(mopis-synth.com) said thanks and specifically said they WILL add support.

In the biggest contrast in terms of style of customer support...

ReFX support responded that I'm the 2nd person to ever mention this,
and tried to argue that microtuning is only for ethnic and classical music.
He actually responded to my assertions otherwise and strongly stated that
there simply is no musical value to microtuning in the world of techno,
trance, dance, etc. music, which is their primary customer base. What a
jerk.

On the other hand, www.alphakanal.de makers of the FREEWARE Automat
replied that he shoulda thought of it sooner, and then two weeks later (today)
he made a point of replying to me that the next version will support .tun
files, as he's already essentially implemented it since I requested it. And
he's keeping his excellent software completely FREE.

For what it is worth, I feel like discouraging people from using ReFX plugins
even for regular 12TET stuff. They aren't bad, but what terrible and close-
minded support! And everyone keep an eye out real soon for the new Automat
and hopefully later for Mopis-synth. Those makers are both very supportive
and very open and reasonable in their customer policies.

-Aaron

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

I'm horrified to see such narrow-minded lousiness dominate the techno music
market. Fortunately, none can hold back microtonal progress for long.

Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Wolf" <backfromthesilo@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 22 Mayï¿½s 2006 Pazartesi 18:57
Subject: [tuning] Update on microtonal soft-synths

So I got into just recently e-mailing a number of developers hoping
they'd add microtuning capabilities to various soft-synths...

In the biggest contrast in terms of style of customer support...

On the other hand, www.alphakanal.de makers of the FREEWARE Automat
replied that he shoulda thought of it sooner, and then two weeks later
(today)
he made a point of replying to me that the next version will support .tun
files, as he's already essentially implemented it since I requested it. And
he's keeping his excellent software completely FREE.

For what it is worth, I feel like discouraging people from using ReFX
plugins
even for regular 12TET stuff. They aren't bad, but what terrible and close-
minded support! And everyone keep an eye out real soon for the new Automat
and hopefully later for Mopis-synth. Those makers are both very supportive
and very open and reasonable in their customer policies.

-Aaron

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@cox.net>

Aaron,

Did you write to any of the manufacturers/developers that already
fully or partially support microtonality in their instruments? You
only mention two that don't do a very good job, and I don't know if
that is to paint a bleak picture or you are just getting started.

It leads to an unfortunate comment like Ozan's, when in reality the
last couple of years have seen a growing number of instruments that do
what we need - or at least come quite close. Just a couple weeks ago I
witnessed a couple of threads on one of the main internet forums for
VST and other electronic musics, where the participants (none of which
seemed to be involved in academia or tuning theory circles) were
talking excitedly about using different tunings, posting their
favorite tunings/scales from Scala archives! Actual Young Human Beings
Making Current Music with Microtonality!! :)

Anyway, I can think of about a dozen instruments right off the top of
my head. If you really aren't finding stuff, I can post some names,
and I don't recall if you are on the MMM list, where it is more
frequently discussed. The stuff is out there, and it is a very fun
time to be involved in non-12tet music.

Later,
Jon

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

There is nothing unfortunate about my comment. I share your enthusiasm and
optimism Jon.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@cox.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 22 Mayï¿½s 2006 Pazartesi 22:17
Subject: [tuning] Re: Update on microtonal soft-synths

> Aaron,
>
> Did you write to any of the manufacturers/developers that already
> fully or partially support microtonality in their instruments? You
> only mention two that don't do a very good job, and I don't know if
> that is to paint a bleak picture or you are just getting started.
>
> It leads to an unfortunate comment like Ozan's, when in reality the
> last couple of years have seen a growing number of instruments that do
> what we need - or at least come quite close. Just a couple weeks ago I
> witnessed a couple of threads on one of the main internet forums for
> VST and other electronic musics, where the participants (none of which
> seemed to be involved in academia or tuning theory circles) were
> talking excitedly about using different tunings, posting their
> favorite tunings/scales from Scala archives! Actual Young Human Beings
> Making Current Music with Microtonality!! :)
>
> Anyway, I can think of about a dozen instruments right off the top of
> my head. If you really aren't finding stuff, I can post some names,
> and I don't recall if you are on the MMM list, where it is more
> frequently discussed. The stuff is out there, and it is a very fun
> time to be involved in non-12tet music.
>
> Later,
> Jon
>

🔗Joe <tamahome02000@yahoo.com>

Some new ones that support .tun files:

linplug octopus, sophistry (=cronox); cakewalk rapture, dimension pro
(by rgc); dashsignature eve; smart electronix foorius (free except
for nag screen)

Btw, rgcaudio z3ta+ has Hermode dynamic tuning.

Specs & source code for reading .tun files are at the bottom of the
http://anamark.de download page:

http://www.mark-henning.de/files/tuning.zip

So, as far as I know, it's a no-brainer to add .tun support?

Joe

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Wolf" <backfromthesilo@...>
wrote:
>
> So I got into just recently e-mailing a number of developers hoping
> they'd add microtuning capabilities to various soft-synths...
>
> What an interesting experience. Most responded with some sort of
> "we might look into that" message. Some, like particularly mopis-
synth
> (mopis-synth.com) said thanks and specifically said they WILL add
support.
>
> In the biggest contrast in terms of style of customer support...
>
> ReFX support responded that I'm the 2nd person to ever mention this,
> and tried to argue that microtuning is only for ethnic and
classical music.
> He actually responded to my assertions otherwise and strongly
stated that
> there simply is no musical value to microtuning in the world of
techno,
> trance, dance, etc. music, which is their primary customer base.
What a
> jerk.
>
> On the other hand, www.alphakanal.de makers of the FREEWARE Automat
> replied that he shoulda thought of it sooner, and then two weeks
later (today)
> he made a point of replying to me that the next version will
support .tun
> files, as he's already essentially implemented it since I requested
it. And
> he's keeping his excellent software completely FREE.
>
> For what it is worth, I feel like discouraging people from using
ReFX plugins
> even for regular 12TET stuff. They aren't bad, but what terrible
and close-
> minded support! And everyone keep an eye out real soon for the new
Automat
> and hopefully later for Mopis-synth. Those makers are both very
supportive
> and very open and reasonable in their customer policies.
>
> -Aaron
>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@cox.net>

Joe,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@...> wrote:
> Some new ones that support .tun files:

Here are some of the same, plus a few more, with links:
Cakewalk (formerly from rgc:audio)- Z3ta and Rapture:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/

Linplug - CronoX3, Sophistry, Albino, and Octopus:
http://www.linplug.com/

Big Tick Software - Rhino:
http://bigtick.pastnotecut.org/index.php?action=PROD&pcode=140

VirSyn - Tera 3, miniTera, Cube 2, and Cantor:
http://www.virsyn.de/en/E_Products/e_products.html

Wusik - Wusikstation:
http://www.wusik.com/index.php?pagep=main

Native Instruments - Kontakt:
http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=kontakt_us

STL - Vaz Modular 2.5:
http://www.software-technology.com/

There are others out there as well, but the above cover most all
synthesis techniques in addition to sampling/rompling.

> So, as far as I know, it's a no-brainer to add .tun support?

I wouldn't say no-brainer; for synthesis it might be a bit easier, but
sample playback requires a bit more forethought, due to the range of
the sample set, intonation of same, etc. Developers also need to be
convinced that there is a real reason to add micro stuff, and the only
thing that will convince them is compelling music, because that is
about the only thing that will sell their instruments.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Aaron Wolf <backfromthesilo@yahoo.com>

Sorry this wasn't clear: I specifically wrote to developers that HAVEN'T ALREADY
implemented microtuning support. Great that there's stuff that already is, and I
have some of it. I sorta figured it would be good to just encourage MORE support.

I wrote to a number of developers who make products I think are otherwise
cool. Mopis-synth and Alphakanal both are essentially going to take my
suggestion and implement .tun file support in the near future. I think that's
great. And Automat is totally free. How many totally free, high quality synths
support .tun already? Not many that I know of.

As for my experience with ReFX, I mainly share that to go ahead and encourage
anyone here to not support them and to discourage others from supporting
them. They are not interested in working with customers on their level, they
are interested in telling customers what does and doesn't work musically.

They will be left in the dust behind developers who are responsive to customer
requests.

If you haven't checked it out, mopis-synth particularly is really different
from any of the synths that currently support microtuning. And it's only
$50. I plan to get a copy when they add .tun support.

-Aaron

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Aaron,
>
> Did you write to any of the manufacturers/developers that already
> fully or partially support microtonality in their instruments? You
> only mention two that don't do a very good job, and I don't know if
> that is to paint a bleak picture or you are just getting started.
>
> It leads to an unfortunate comment like Ozan's, when in reality the
> last couple of years have seen a growing number of instruments that do
> what we need - or at least come quite close. Just a couple weeks ago I
> witnessed a couple of threads on one of the main internet forums for
> VST and other electronic musics, where the participants (none of which
> seemed to be involved in academia or tuning theory circles) were
> talking excitedly about using different tunings, posting their
> favorite tunings/scales from Scala archives! Actual Young Human Beings
> Making Current Music with Microtonality!! :)
>
> Anyway, I can think of about a dozen instruments right off the top of
> my head. If you really aren't finding stuff, I can post some names,
> and I don't recall if you are on the MMM list, where it is more
> frequently discussed. The stuff is out there, and it is a very fun
> time to be involved in non-12tet music.
>
> Later,
> Jon
>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@cox.net>

Aaron,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Wolf" <backfromthesilo@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry this wasn't clear: I specifically wrote to developers that
HAVEN'T ALREADY
> implemented microtuning support.

A-ha. Nevermind...

> If you haven't checked it out, mopis-synth particularly is really
different
> from any of the synths that currently support microtuning. And it's
only
> $50. I plan to get a copy when they add .tun support.

I'll check it out.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Cornell III, Howard M <howard.m.cornell.iii@lmco.com>

Jon,

I'm new to the list and would like to know what soft instruments can use
these tuning files. Also, what is the MMM list about?

Thanks!

Howard Cornell

-----Original Message-----
From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Jon Szanto
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:18 PM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Re: Update on microtonal soft-synths

Aaron,

Did you write to any of the manufacturers/developers that already fully
or partially support microtonality in their instruments? You only
mention two that don't do a very good job, and I don't know if that is
to paint a bleak picture or you are just getting started.

It leads to an unfortunate comment like Ozan's, when in reality the last
couple of years have seen a growing number of instruments that do what
we need - or at least come quite close. Just a couple weeks ago I
witnessed a couple of threads on one of the main internet forums for VST
and other electronic musics, where the participants (none of which
seemed to be involved in academia or tuning theory circles) were talking
excitedly about using different tunings, posting their favorite
tunings/scales from Scala archives! Actual Young Human Beings Making
Current Music with Microtonality!! :)

Anyway, I can think of about a dozen instruments right off the top of my
head. If you really aren't finding stuff, I can post some names, and I
don't recall if you are on the MMM list, where it is more frequently
discussed. The stuff is out there, and it is a very fun time to be
involved in non-12tet music.

Later,
Jon

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🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@cox.net>

Hello Howard,

I must say: I'm only here briefly. Other things going on...

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Cornell III, Howard M"
<howard.m.cornell.iii@...> wrote:
> I'm new to the list and would like to know what soft instruments can use
> these tuning files.

I think you'll see them in a follow-up post. I apologize in that all I
really did is show the instruments I'm familiar with, and the majority
I own and use. What I *didn't* do was specify OS platform, and that is
a cardinal sin. There are other microtunable instruments out there,
and while I utilize a PC platform, there are instruments for the other
major OS's as well. Also...

> what is the MMM list about?

/makemicromusic/

Another forum for microtonality that I started up with two colleagues,
the focus of which is the practical application of resources (theory,
instruments, technology) to actually create new music. If you want to
discuss tuning theory, the current forum is the right place to be. If
you want to put that into practice, MMM might be more appropriate.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Joe <tamahome02000@yahoo.com>

The karmafx guy just got back to me. When I linked him the .tun file
specs, he seemed pretty willing to look into it. Karmafx is a free
modular soft synth, if you want to wrestle with it: http://karmafx.dk

Joe

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Howard,
>
> I must say: I'm only here briefly. Other things going on...
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Cornell III, Howard M"
> <howard.m.cornell.iii@> wrote:
> > I'm new to the list and would like to know what soft instruments
can use
> > these tuning files.
>
> I think you'll see them in a follow-up post. I apologize in that
all I
> really did is show the instruments I'm familiar with, and the
majority
> I own and use. What I *didn't* do was specify OS platform, and that
is
> a cardinal sin. There are other microtunable instruments out there,
> and while I utilize a PC platform, there are instruments for the
other
> major OS's as well. Also...
>
> > what is the MMM list about?
>
> /makemicromusic/
>
> Another forum for microtonality that I started up with two
colleagues,
> the focus of which is the practical application of resources
(theory,
> instruments, technology) to actually create new music. If you want
to
> discuss tuning theory, the current forum is the right place to be.
If
> you want to put that into practice, MMM might be more appropriate.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>

🔗Joe <tamahome02000@yahoo.com>

Foorius is free except for a nag screen:
http://dmi.smartelectronix.com/foorius.html

ZynAddSubFX is free. You can get a standalone version 2.2.0 for
windows:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/zynaddsubfx

Joe

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@> wrote:
> >
> > The karmafx guy just got back to me. When I linked him the .tun
file
> > specs, he seemed pretty willing to look into it. Karmafx is a free
> > modular soft synth, if you want to wrestle with it:
http://karmafx.dk
>
> So what free microtonal softsynths are already out there?
>

🔗Aaron Wolf <backfromthesilo@yahoo.com>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>

🔗Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@yahoo.com.br>

Gene Ward Smith escreveu:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@...> wrote:
> > >>ZynAddSubFX is free. You can get a standalone version 2.2.0 for >>windows:
>>http://sourceforge.net/projects/zynaddsubfx
> > > I can't find it, and I don't count C++ tar archives as a Windows
> distribution, so I hope you don't mean something like that.

Well, I think that Joe does count a Setup*.exe file (available from there, that same link to that same site) as a Windows version...

I hope you can find it here (choose version 2.2.0, as Joe suggested):
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=62934&package_id=59720

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🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@...> wrote:
>
> Gene Ward Smith escreveu:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>ZynAddSubFX is free. You can get a standalone version 2.2.0 for
> >>windows:
> >>http://sourceforge.net/projects/zynaddsubfx
> >
> >
> > I can't find it, and I don't count C++ tar archives as a Windows
> > distribution, so I hope you don't mean something like that.
>
> Well, I think that Joe does count a Setup*.exe file (available from
> there, that same link to that same site) as a Windows version...

As far as I can tell, it's not there. I untar and I get stuff with
evil names like compile.win32, not executables.

🔗Joe <tamahome02000@yahoo.com>

You have to click on the '+' next to the 2.2.0. Hopefully this link
works:

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/zynaddsubfx/Setup_ZynAddSubFX-2.2.0.exe?download

Joe

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@> wrote:
> >
> > Gene Ward Smith escreveu:
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>ZynAddSubFX is free. You can get a standalone version 2.2.0 for
> > >>windows:
> > >>http://sourceforge.net/projects/zynaddsubfx
> > >
> > >
> > > I can't find it, and I don't count C++ tar archives as a Windows
> > > distribution, so I hope you don't mean something like that.
> >
> > Well, I think that Joe does count a Setup*.exe file (available from
> > there, that same link to that same site) as a Windows version...
>
> As far as I can tell, it's not there. I untar and I get stuff with
> evil names like compile.win32, not executables.
>