Re: Re: old wine in new bottles; solving a puzzle.

At 05:00 12/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Joe Monzo <monz@juno.com>
>To me a lot of ancient tuning theory is a puzzle I'd like to
>solve. I see this angle in a lot of what I read here,
>so apparently I've got a lot of company.
>

>
>-monz
>
>Joseph L. Monzo Philadelphia monz@juno.com
>http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
> |"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
> | - Erv Wilson |
>--------------------------------------------------
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Joe,

You certainly have my company and possibly many others' on this list
as you have suggested. Not being a music theorist, let alone a musician,
I find it intriguing to 'decode' a performer's tuning patterns which,
in the case of Turkish music, are constantly changing in a
non-deterministic pattern. The dynamics of such intonations are fascinating
to watch and, hopefully, decipher in a mathematical form. It is like
solving a very sophisticated puzzle, as you have put it so elegantly.

I believe in my own pedestrian way the genesis of tuning lies in the
collection of all intonations used by all performers on the planet
since the beginning of time, irregardless of what the composers might
have intended. 'Taksim' or improvisation is probably the most suitable
musical setting for such intonations to come out in full bloom, without
constraints. Determining the actual tunings in improvisations made on
unrestricted (non-keyboard, non-fretted, etc) instruments is like stepping
into a musical 'wonderland' where the human spirit is totally free to
display its infinite dimensional 'universe' in the form of sound
progressions. As was mentioned in a previous post, 'only God knows what
intonations Art Tatum would have used in his intricate improvisations if
he was playing a non-keyboard instrument'.

Best regards,

Dr. Can Akkoc
Alabama School of Mathematics and Science
1255 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604
USA

Phone: (334) 441-2126
Fax: (334) 441-3290
Web: http://199.20.31.100/GIFT/

[Can Akkoc:]
>As was mentioned in a previous post, 'only God knows what intonations
Art Tatum would have used in his intricate improvisations if he was
playing a non-keyboard instrument'.

Yes indeed... I think Tatum is an example someone who possessed
uncanny "naturally" ability, and really dug deeply into the
possibilities of the intonation he had at hand - twelve-tone equal
temperament. Some of his modulations and simultaneous manipulations of
melody and harmony (horizontal and vertical planes) are just so
peculiar: I mean way way OUT-THERE! When someone asks me something
along the lines of what I think is a good example of the pinnacle of
what twelve-tone equal temperament can enable or accomplish, I often
want to use Tatum as *the* example. But unfortunately he was also
hardly a "gentle" or a "restful" player... and these are just the
sorts of things that those who have little good to say about equal
temperament will often point to... so I don't... But boy oh boy, he
sure was a one of a kind... just the tone he got out the piano, I've
never really heard anyone else with a combination of tone and touch
quite like it, just amazing.

And as this thread is titled "old wine in new bottles," I probably
shouldn't fail to point out that Tatum's modus operandi often
consisted of transforming Tin Pan Alley throwaways (which were pretty
banal even then!) into a music teeming with inspirations for the
future...

Dan

I (troublingly!) wrote:

>I think Tatum is an example someone who possessed uncanny "naturally"
ability,

It should have read:

I think Tatum is an example of someone who possessed
uncanny "natural" ability,