Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Bach/Lehman tuning on the BBC April 30 (web stream all week)

Yesterday's live broadcast of BBC 3's "Early Music Show" featured harpsichordist Richard Egarr playing music by Frescobaldi, Louis Couperin, Handel and Bach. He used my temperament as a convenient tuning for that program, and talked about it briefly between the pieces.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/pip/g94in/

It is available through this week on the "Listen to the latest programmes - Sunday" link at this page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/

The Taylor & Boody organ Opus 46 is being dedicated next Sunday, also using this tuning. That one is a two-manual, 13 stop instrument at a Presbyterian church in the Shenandoah Valley, Virginia.

Other recent and upcoming usage (but I usually don't know about it very far in advance):
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/usage.html

Enjoy,

Brad Lehman
http://www.larips.com

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

That sounds like a rebellious tuning considering the music played, if I do
say so myself. Maybe it's the radio quality of the stream that's deceiving
my ears.

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Lehman" <bpl@umich.edu>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 01 Mayï¿½s 2006 Pazartesi 16:01
Subject: [tuning] Bach/Lehman tuning on the BBC April 30 (web stream all
week)

> Yesterday's live broadcast of BBC 3's "Early Music Show" featured
> harpsichordist Richard Egarr playing music by Frescobaldi, Louis
> Couperin, Handel and Bach. He used my temperament as a convenient
> tuning for that program, and talked about it briefly between the pieces.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/pip/g94in/
>
> It is available through this week on the "Listen to the latest
> programmes - Sunday" link at this page:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/
>
> The Taylor & Boody organ Opus 46 is being dedicated next Sunday, also
> using this tuning. That one is a two-manual, 13 stop instrument at a
> Presbyterian church in the Shenandoah Valley, Virginia.
>
> Other recent and upcoming usage (but I usually don't know about it
> very far in advance):
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/usage.html
>
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Brad Lehman
> http://www.larips.com
>
>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

Oops, I spoke too soon. The tuning sounds marvelous with the Chaconne of
Handel. My sincerest apologies for the bias and congratulations on your
success Brad.

Oz.

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@melbpc.org.au>

Hi all,

On Mon, 01 May 2006, Brad Lehman wrote:
>
> Yesterday's live broadcast of BBC 3's "Early Music Show" featured
> harpsichordist Richard Egarr playing music by Frescobaldi, Louis
> Couperin, Handel and Bach. He used my temperament as a convenient
> tuning for that program, and talked about it briefly between the pieces.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/pip/g94in/

Not only does Egarr talk about it, he proclaims
himself "a convert". Not bad, coming from the
soon-to-be Music Director of the Academy of
Ancient Music!

> It is available through this week on the "Listen to the latest
> programmes - Sunday" link at this page:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/

I'm listening to it as I type this. I'm thoroughly
enjoying Egarr's lush playing. He had some great
comments on how he interprets the harpsichord
as a lute, not a church organ. Rather than over-
articulating, he says, he tries to "over-hold", or
create an "over-legato" sound. I'm convinced -
the emphasis back when I took keyboard lessons
was definitely on articulation, to the detriment,
I think, of a lyrical, cantabile tone. But this is
OT for the Tuning list ...

Back on-topic, I'm finding Egarr's - that is the
Bach-Lehmann - intonation very active and lively.
The proof of the pudding, etc. Egarr makes a
good case for this tuning.

> The Taylor & Boody organ Opus 46 is being dedicated next Sunday, also
> using this tuning. That one is a two-manual, 13 stop instrument at a
> Presbyterian church in the Shenandoah Valley, Virginia.
>
> Other recent and upcoming usage (but I usually don't know about it
> very far in advance):
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/usage.html
>
>
> Enjoy,
> Brad Lehman

Thanks, Brad, I did!

Regards,
Yahya

--
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🔗Tom Dent <stringph@gmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> On Mon, 01 May 2006, Brad Lehman wrote:
> >
> > Yesterday's live broadcast of BBC 3's "Early Music Show" featured
> > harpsichordist Richard Egarr playing music by Frescobaldi, Louis
> > Couperin, Handel and Bach. He used my temperament as a convenient
> > tuning for that program, and talked about it briefly between the
pieces.
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/pip/g94in/
>
> Not only does Egarr talk about it, he proclaims
> himself "a convert". Not bad, coming from the
> soon-to-be Music Director of the Academy of
> Ancient Music!

'Convert' indeed - you would indeed need unusual faith to fit it to
Frescobaldi or Uncle Louis C.

For these composers it is suitable in the sense that 12-ET is
suitable, that you don't hear anything noticeably pure or
interestingly offensive. Whereas they use one or both extremes to
great effect.

One might reasonably claim that doing all this different repertoire
live requires a compromise tuning. That runs into 2 problems: why
compromise in the direction of near-equal tuning? and why choose
repertoire in such a way that the near-equal compromise is needed at all?

Funnily enough, basically all of the live programme could be
accommodated in a much more unequal, and probably much more
historical-for-everyone-except-Bach, 'temperament ordinaire' with
nearly pure diatonic thirds.

(Disclaimers: I do not mean the 1/6 PC based late Baroque tuning I
suggested earlier for Telemann. I also do not say that the tuning used
by Egarr is 'historical-for-Bach' - just that it is less-unhistorical
for Bach than for earlier composers.)

Gustav Leonhardt goes in this direction on his claviorganum disc, he
has repertoire from the Renaissance up until JSB, and everything is in
standard meantone or slight adjustments thereof: he even transposes a
Bach family piece from Eb to C major for the meantone instrument.

I remember I read some advertising pitch about all the harpsichords of
some London school of music being tuned to the new recipe. It's sad if
this means some instruments or pieces being tuned *away* from meantone
or ordinaire where they belong. Lehman's 'success' (applied, to be
sure, without Brad's explicit approval) is Frescobaldi's failure - or
rather, lack of complete success.

~~~T~~~

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

> > It is available through this week on the "Listen to the latest
> > programmes - Sunday" link at this page:
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/
>
> I'm finding Egarr's - that is the
> Bach-Lehmann - intonation very active and lively.
> The proof of the pudding, etc. Egarr makes a
> good case for this tuning.

A good case that it works, but not a comparitive case vs.
other tunings, right? Unless you've heard Egarr play the
same material on the same insttrument in another tuning.

Cases that it works are not hard. I think Glenn Gould
makes equal temperament work for Bach.

-Carl

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/pip/g94in/
>
> Not only does Egarr talk about it, he proclaims
> himself "a convert". Not bad, coming from the
> soon-to-be Music Director of the Academy of
> Ancient Music!

Yeah, but he also says the best harpsichord composer is
Couperin. :) He also thinks the squiggles on the WTC
title page are a code for a particular tuning system. :)
He also thinks any chaconne in G written before 1741 was
the impetus Bach's Goldberg variations.

> > It is available through this week on the "Listen to the
> > latest programmes - Sunday" link at this page:
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/

Whoa, it's got Andrew Manze, who's a god.

Actually, I do like Egarr's playing. Not my favorite, I think
he overdoes the legato, but his phrasing is interesting.

As to the tuning, the streaming quality here wasn't very
high, so I couldn't really hear a whole lot of its detail.
Sounded well enough like harpsichord. Anyone claiming
it's a revolution based on this web presentation should
go out more.

Tom, Egarr did address the issue of choosing a single
tuning appropriate to the variety on this program...

-Carl

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

SNIP

>
> Yeah, but he also says the best harpsichord composer is
> Couperin. :)

Let us interpret it as `one of the best`. He was, afterall, an impressive
fellow.

He also thinks the squiggles on the WTC
> title page are a code for a particular tuning system. :)

Is it absolutely implausible that the squiggles indeed represent a
particular tuning preferred by the composer?

> He also thinks any chaconne in G written before 1741 was
> the impetus Bach's Goldberg variations.
>

Could it be that the Chaconne in question indeed was part of the impetus for
Bach to write the Goldberg variations?

> > > It is available through this week on the "Listen to the
> > > latest programmes - Sunday" link at this page:
> > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/earlymusicshow/
>
> Whoa, it's got Andrew Manze, who's a god.
>

Naturally not. He's a human being like all of us (except myself, because I
belong rather to the djinn category - wide grin), however talented and
renown.

> Actually, I do like Egarr's playing. Not my favorite, I think
> he overdoes the legato, but his phrasing is interesting.
>
> As to the tuning, the streaming quality here wasn't very
> high, so I couldn't really hear a whole lot of its detail.
> Sounded well enough like harpsichord. Anyone claiming
> it's a revolution based on this web presentation should
> go out more.
>

It's definetely not a revolution, but a milestone for Brad. No matter the
criticism, he deserves some credit for having achieved so much thus far.

Cordially,
Oz.

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

> > Yeah, but he also says the best harpsichord composer is
> > Couperin. :)
>
> Let us interpret it as `one of the best`. He was, afterall,
> an impressive fellow.

He's great in the sense that we know his name 400 years later,
no doubt greater than most of his contemporaries whose names
we don't know, but among those we do, he's not among my favorites.

> > He also thinks the squiggles on the WTC
> > title page are a code for a particular tuning system. :)
>
> Is it absolutely implausible that the squiggles indeed represent
> a particular tuning preferred by the composer?

I think it's unlikely. But even if they do, there doesn't seem
to be a way to know what it was.

> > He also thinks any chaconne in G written before 1741 was
> > the impetus Bach's Goldberg variations.
>
> Could it be that the Chaconne in question indeed was part of
> the impetus for Bach to write the Goldberg variations?

I suppose a Bach scholar could tell you how likely it is Bach
knew of this piece.

> > Actually, I do like Egarr's playing. Not my favorite, I think
> > he overdoes the legato, but his phrasing is interesting.
> >
> > As to the tuning, the streaming quality here wasn't very
> > high, so I couldn't really hear a whole lot of its detail.
> > Sounded well enough like harpsichord. Anyone claiming
> > it's a revolution based on this web presentation should
> > go out more.
>
> It's definetely not a revolution, but a milestone for Brad.
> No matter the criticism, he deserves some credit for having
> achieved so much thus far.

I disagree. I don't see it as much progress for alternate
tunings, I'm afraid, since harpsichordists have been using
them since the early music scene took off in the '70s.
Especially in light of the fact that I think the story
behind it is something akin to an urban legend.

-Carl

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

Dear Carl,

> > > Yeah, but he also says the best harpsichord composer is
> > > Couperin. :)
> >
> > Let us interpret it as `one of the best`. He was, afterall,
> > an impressive fellow.
>
> He's great in the sense that we know his name 400 years later,
> no doubt greater than most of his contemporaries whose names
> we don't know, but among those we do, he's not among my favorites.
>

Now you just sounded like Bill Flavel. I'm sure he's ecstatic that you said
what you said. LOL

> > > He also thinks the squiggles on the WTC
> > > title page are a code for a particular tuning system. :)
> >
> > Is it absolutely implausible that the squiggles indeed represent
> > a particular tuning preferred by the composer?
>
> I think it's unlikely. But even if they do, there doesn't seem
> to be a way to know what it was.
>

Unlikely does not equate to absolutely implausible. And we are all familiar
with the scope of guesswork.

> > > He also thinks any chaconne in G written before 1741 was
> > > the impetus Bach's Goldberg variations.
> >
> > Could it be that the Chaconne in question indeed was part of
> > the impetus for Bach to write the Goldberg variations?
>
> I suppose a Bach scholar could tell you how likely it is Bach
> knew of this piece.
>

The probability of him not knowing it in comparison to the probability that
he knew?

> > It's definetely not a revolution, but a milestone for Brad.
> > No matter the criticism, he deserves some credit for having
> > achieved so much thus far.
>
> I disagree. I don't see it as much progress for alternate
> tunings, I'm afraid, since harpsichordists have been using
> them since the early music scene took off in the '70s.
> Especially in light of the fact that I think the story
> behind it is something akin to an urban legend.
>
> -Carl
>
>

He did make it to the BBC, whereas neither you nor I did. In this crazy age,
fame and fortune is determined by popularity and mass media support.

Oz.

Bach/Lehman tuning on the BBC April 30 (web stream all week)

🔗Brad Lehman <bpl@umich.edu>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@melbpc.org.au>

🔗Tom Dent <stringph@gmail.com>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>