Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: [tuning] Another chord, 79-tone Qanun, Mu'tazilah and other parapharnalia...

I'm merry that you have shown interest in my aspiring philosophical
monotheistic creed Danny. Indeed, this must be Muqadderat! You should
research Qadi Abd-al-Jabbar... I hear he was the best of the Mu'tazilah and
was dubbed the Qadi of Qadis a thousand years ago. His rational
interpretation of the Qur'an is much obscured thanks to the Asharites and
other bigots today, but one might look for translations - if any- of his
Tenzih Al-Shariah 'An-Al Matain (Purification of the Shariah from Texts?)
nevertheless.

Check out:
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ei/abd-jabar.htm

There are also great works - should you be interested further - by Shareef
Al-Murtadha and Zhemahshari, who were Mu'tazilite scholars as well.

But enough of that for now. Have you listened to my 79-tone Qanun
improvisations? An incomplete MS Excel file explaining the slippery details
(Can someone tell me if I got the beat-frequencies on the second sheet
right?) as well as the mp3s are all here:

http://www.ozanyarman.com/anonymous/

Others will probably be curious too to hear my recent clumsy doodlings I
uploaded today. Wanna guess which maqam is which?

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel A. Wier" <dawiertx@sbcglobal.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 26 Nisan 2006 ï¿½arï¿½amba 6:21
Subject: Re: [tuning] Fw: Another chord

> Ozan Yarman wrote:
>
> > Hey Danny! Welcome back... long time no see. This must be muqadderat
> > (predestination) as I'm used to say, although I'm a Mutazilite now, that
> > your re-appearance coincides with my mention of you.
>
> I was just reading about Mu'taziliya the other day, and I have been having
a
> lot of cases of synchronicity lately, like this one. (I'm getting caught
up
> on philosophy in general, particularly ancient Greek and Chinese.)
>
> >> I think I want to use your 8:10:14:19:23 chord in something now, and
> >> 12:15:21:28:35 can be a 7-limit alternative.
> >
> > Did you also try 12:15:21:28:35:36(:38) ?
> >
> > Also check out 8:10:14:19:23:27.
>
> The chord 12:15:21:28:35 in the key of E would be notated E-G#-Dd-Gd-Bd
> using Turkish accidentals; in 41-tone*, the pitches are
> 0-13-33-50(9)-63(22). Despite having that semi-diminished twelfth (which I
> normally equate to 32/11 rather than 35/12), the chord isn't that
dissonant
> compared to any other complex jazz chord. The secondary major third on the
> septimal minor seventh helps a lot. But I wouldn't recommend adding the
> perfect twelfth; the chord gets a little painful. A perfect fifth would
work
> better since it wouldn't create that 35:36 quartertone cluster, and it
would
> give more emphasis to the root, making the chord sound less like a major
> third with utonally-related notes attached beneath. (That would create a
> 12:15:18:21:28:35 chord.)
>
> I'm listening to the chord with the "tense" major eleventh (27/8, the note
> C#|) now, and that adds to the subminor seventh something similar to a
> semi-diminished octave. I'm using the basic piano sound on my computer's
> MIDI output, and I don't hear the note very well, so we might be going
over
> the note limit now.
>
> *41-tone meaning 41-EDO or something close to it; I use my own
> "well-tempered" Pythagorean tuning with that many notes per octave.
>
> ~Danny~
>
>

🔗Daniel A. Wier <dawiertx@sbcglobal.net>

Ozan,

I am definitely interested in your 79-tone tuning and compositions; I remember you mentioning it a while back. And it's been a while since I've checked out your website.

You should put up some articles on non-Western musical notations in English and any other language you might know. I found things online about Hamparsum, but they were all in Turkish.

(We'd have to discuss religion and philosophy offlist, obviously.)

~Danny~

From: "Ozan Yarman"

> But enough of that for now. Have you listened to my 79-tone Qanun
> improvisations? An incomplete MS Excel file explaining the slippery > details
> (Can someone tell me if I got the beat-frequencies on the second sheet
> right?) as well as the mp3s are all here:
>
> http://www.ozanyarman.com/anonymous/
>
> Others will probably be curious too to hear my recent clumsy doodlings I
> uploaded today. Wanna guess which maqam is which?
>
> Cordially,
> Ozan

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

Dear Danny,

I don't yet have any 79-tone compositions to my name, save a few Qanun
doodlings... but I'll say, people are pressuring me to produce some written
stuff on this tuning. To me, the matter is one of instrumental methodology,
maqam notation and music education, none of which readily comply with my
demands on 79 MOS 159-tET (I still hate that definition).

My purpose is to endorse this tuning to become the new theoretical standard
in Turkey and replace the dreaded Arel-Ezgi school. Thus, I shall have to
establish 79 MOS 159-tET as the zenith of my dissertation.

However, it is not an easy task to promote the 79-tone temperament I
proposed - in spite of the fact that competent people in the field have
identified it as a breakthrough in `Qanun-engineering`. I'm so engrossed in
contemplating how to overcome the theoretical issues that I had not even
considered it important to compose this past year.

For one thing, I have decided (to the delight of George and Dave) to employ
the mixed Sagittal notation for 79-equal. It could be possible to hybridize
this with the Arel-Ezgi accidentals if necessary. This choice will most
likely please Orientalists and allow them the liberty to appreciate the
intricate complexities of Maqam Music vis-a-vis a microtonal notation both
the East and the West could settle upon.

In the mean time, Hamparsum et. al. shall have to wait for my thesis as I'm
used to say.

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel A. Wier" <dawiertx@sbcglobal.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 27 Nisan 2006 Perï¿½embe 20:47
Subject: Re: [tuning] Another chord, 79-tone Qanun, Mu'tazilah and other
parapharnalia...

> Ozan,
>
> I am definitely interested in your 79-tone tuning and compositions; I
> remember you mentioning it a while back. And it's been a while since I've
> checked out your website.
>
> You should put up some articles on non-Western musical notations in
English
> and any other language you might know. I found things online about
> Hamparsum, but they were all in Turkish.
>
> (We'd have to discuss religion and philosophy offlist, obviously.)
>
> ~Danny~
>

SNIP

🔗George D. Secor <gdsecor@yahoo.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

Dear George et al.,

On Sunday morning, 28th of May, the `Qanun Circle` - involving Qanun
performers, Qanun-makers and Maqam Music enthusiasts - gathered at the
Auditorium of Yildiz Technical University.

There, at noon hours, I delivered a presentation concerning the necessity
for Turkish Qanuns to adopt my 79 MOS 159-tET proposal.

The current practice, as it happens is all about affixing mandals according
to the semitones of 12-tET geared to Electronic Tuners imported from
outside. Sadly, the space in between the semitone mandal and the nut (which
is manipulated to yield an exact 100 cents) is divided equally into 6 parts,
practically resulting in 72 equal divisions of the octave.

Some Qanun makers are not even concerned with octave-equivalances, so they
divide the space in between the semitone mandal and the nut in the lower
registers into 7 portions (because, those mandals are too far apart
otherwise, they say!), effectively arriving at 84 equal divisions of the
octave.

The disastrous consequences of this habit not only cancels the claims of the
theory in force defending 53-tET, but also wreaks havoc in Maqam Music
ensembles.

As it happens, aged veterans in the field agreed with my observation through
their personal experience and exasperation. `Being in unison like a Western
string orchestra is such a big problem!` they said. Add to this known facts
such as the absence of bowing directions, dynamics, nuances, etc... we have
every musician trying to be a soloist.

All this said and done, I defended my position that Maqam Music required the
grounds for a common music theory education over which all instrumental
disciplines may be unified. Such a theory required no less voluminous a
tuning than 79 MOS 159-tET.

I brushed aside flimsy objections such as that the Tanbur could not
accompany a 79-tone Qanun. Can not a violin accompany a 12-tone piano,
although the violinist tends to evade 12-tone equal temperament as much as
he can? All it matters is to pick so many tones out of 79 MOS 159-tET as we
may need. Afterall, we do urgently require a clarification of the complexity
of Maqam Music pitches, and organize them in a well-rounded temperament
solution, I reminded.

In light of my explanations, and the supportive demonstrations of the famed
Qanun-performer Halil Karaduman, my presentation was a huge success!

The Excel file of the tuning (however incomplete) is here:
http://www.ozanyarman.com/anonymous/79tone.xls

No less important is Jon L. Smith's 79 tone tempered 11-U composition (fresh
from the oven, and marvelously Maqamic) which I played from the computer to
the audience. (Jon, share it with us!) This is only a sneak-peak into the
microtonal possibilities, I declared.

I also showed how Sagittal accidentals should be used. This is the comma
sign, 2-comma sign, 1/4 tone sign... flip `em down, flip `em up. We only
need to learn 3 more accidentals besides sharps and flats, I stated.

The whole-tone Sagittal spectrum can be seen in the JPG files attached.

George, I think you will like to hear that the notation proposal was very
much acknowledged. Veterans agreed that it should be learned if it meant the
solution to all our problems.

Today, I went to the home-atelier of a Qanun-maker attending the Circle. He
is interested in manufacturing 79-tone Qanuns for the market. I told him
that the tuning list would be thrilled to hear about it.

Cordially,
Oz.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> ...
> For one thing, I have decided (to the delight of George and Dave) to
employ
> the mixed Sagittal notation for 79-equal. It could be possible to
hybridize
> this with the Arel-Ezgi accidentals if necessary. ...
>
> Cordially,
> Ozan

Delighted? Yikes, I'm completely flabbergasted!!!

(BTW, I didn't see this until today, when I had a chance to take a few
minutes to peek in here and search for recent occurrences of my name
and "Sagittal".)

--George

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@coolgoose.com>

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

> > Sadly, the space in between the semitone mandal and the nut (which
> > is manipulated to yield an exact 100 cents) is divided equally into
> 6 parts,
> > practically resulting in 72 equal divisions of the octave.
>
> Sadly? It could be a hell of a lot worse, I am sure.
>

A bike-chain of six 12-tETs one after the other is not the kind of
temperament a Maqam Music veteran would approve in his right of mind.

> > Some Qanun makers are not even concerned with octave-equivalances,
> so they
> > divide the space in between the semitone mandal and the nut in the lower
> > registers into 7 portions (because, those mandals are too far apart
> > otherwise, they say!), effectively arriving at 84 equal divisions of the
> > octave.
>
> Great. They can start composing in orwell. :)
>
>

A bike-chain of seven 12-tETs one after the other is not the kind of
temperament a Maqam Music veteran would approve in his right of mind.