Fw: Another chord

I dug out this info from my personal communication with Danny Wier:

**********

> Then you will hate to hear what Kemalist composers did. They built
> their symphonies, operas, arias and Western conceptions on Turkish
> folk songs and popular fasl pieces. This they did by reducing the
> intricate structure of maqam music down to 12-tone equal temperament.
> The results are much abhorrent...

They did that in Egypt to some extent, but at least they made sure to
include quarter tones.

And this relates to an American genre of music - blues. I doubt very many
blues guitarists today know about the importance of the 7/4 minor seventh
and 7/6 minor third. I think the famous "Hendrix chord", technically a
seventh with an augmented ninth and no fifth, should be tuned, harmonically,
as 12:15:21:28, and someone on Tuning-L came up with the same thing long
before I did (another suggested 8:10:14:19). I've played around with "minor
inside major" tonalities and I think it sounds much better. And I can do it
utonally as well, a "major inside minor".

*******

I wonder who suggested 8:10:14:19 first? I also tried and adore
8:10:14:19:23. We should include them in Scala, don't you think Manuel?

Cordially,
Oz.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ozan Yarman
To: Tuning List
Sent: 21 Nisan 2006 Cuma 0:59
Subject: Another chord

I couldn't find 8:10:14:19 in Scala. Has it been defined previously on this
list?

Cordially,
Oz.

Ozan Yarman wrote:

>I dug out this info from my personal communication with Danny Wier:

[OY]

>> Then you will hate to hear what Kemalist composers did. They built
>> their symphonies, operas, arias and Western conceptions on Turkish
>> folk songs and popular fasl pieces. This they did by reducing the
>> intricate structure of maqam music down to 12-tone equal temperament.
>> The results are much abhorrent...

[DW]

> They did that in Egypt to some extent, but at least they made sure to
> include quarter tones.
>
> And this relates to an American genre of music - blues. I doubt very many
> blues guitarists today know about the importance of the 7/4 minor seventh
> and 7/6 minor third. I think the famous "Hendrix chord", technically a
> seventh with an augmented ninth and no fifth, should be tuned, > harmonically,
> as 12:15:21:28, and someone on Tuning-L came up with the same thing long
> before I did (another suggested 8:10:14:19). I've played around with > "minor
> inside major" tonalities and I think it sounds much better. And I can do > it
> utonally as well, a "major inside minor".

Whoa, I just came back to this list, and I see my name already. ;)

> I wonder who suggested 8:10:14:19 first? I also tried and adore
> 8:10:14:19:23. We should include them in Scala, don't you think Manuel?

The 12:15:21:28 tuning came from Paul Erlich, according to the Scala archive. I thought it mentioned 8:10:14:19 being proposed by Joe Monzo, but it seems to have been removed, and I have a very recent version of Scala.

I think I want to use your 8:10:14:19:23 chord in something now, and 12:15:21:28:35 can be a 7-limit alternative.

~Danny~

Hey Danny! Welcome back... long time no see. This must be muqadderat
(predestination) as I'm used to say, although I'm a Mutazilite now, that
your re-appearance coincides with my mention of you.

SNIP

>
> Whoa, I just came back to this list, and I see my name already. ;)
>
> > I wonder who suggested 8:10:14:19 first? I also tried and adore
> > 8:10:14:19:23. We should include them in Scala, don't you think Manuel?
>
> The 12:15:21:28 tuning came from Paul Erlich, according to the Scala
> archive. I thought it mentioned 8:10:14:19 being proposed by Joe Monzo,
but
> it seems to have been removed, and I have a very recent version of Scala.
>

I wonder why?

> I think I want to use your 8:10:14:19:23 chord in something now, and
> 12:15:21:28:35 can be a 7-limit alternative.
>

Did you also try 12:15:21:28:35:36(:38) ?

Also check out 8:10:14:19:23:27.

> ~Danny~
>
>

Cordially,
Oz.

Ozan Yarman wrote:

> Hey Danny! Welcome back... long time no see. This must be muqadderat
> (predestination) as I'm used to say, although I'm a Mutazilite now, that
> your re-appearance coincides with my mention of you.

I was just reading about Mu'taziliya the other day, and I have been having a lot of cases of synchronicity lately, like this one. (I'm getting caught up on philosophy in general, particularly ancient Greek and Chinese.)

>> I think I want to use your 8:10:14:19:23 chord in something now, and
>> 12:15:21:28:35 can be a 7-limit alternative.
>
> Did you also try 12:15:21:28:35:36(:38) ?
>
> Also check out 8:10:14:19:23:27.

The chord 12:15:21:28:35 in the key of E would be notated E-G#-Dd-Gd-Bd using Turkish accidentals; in 41-tone*, the pitches are 0-13-33-50(9)-63(22). Despite having that semi-diminished twelfth (which I normally equate to 32/11 rather than 35/12), the chord isn't that dissonant compared to any other complex jazz chord. The secondary major third on the septimal minor seventh helps a lot. But I wouldn't recommend adding the perfect twelfth; the chord gets a little painful. A perfect fifth would work better since it wouldn't create that 35:36 quartertone cluster, and it would give more emphasis to the root, making the chord sound less like a major third with utonally-related notes attached beneath. (That would create a 12:15:18:21:28:35 chord.)

I'm listening to the chord with the "tense" major eleventh (27/8, the note C#|) now, and that adds to the subminor seventh something similar to a semi-diminished octave. I'm using the basic piano sound on my computer's MIDI output, and I don't hear the note very well, so we might be going over the note limit now.

*41-tone meaning 41-EDO or something close to it; I use my own "well-tempered" Pythagorean tuning with that many notes per octave.

~Danny~