Barbershop baritone tuning (was: Barbershop tuning issues)

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006, Carl Lumma wrote:
[snip]
> > > A Just Intonation Network member and barbershop friend, always
> > > points out that there are 5 ways to generally tune:
> > > 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 of the parts can consider themselves as tuning
> > > to the other parts.
> >
> > Do the two inner voices ever think they are *not* tuning to other
> > parts?
>
> The lead is one of the inner voices. It's the bari and tenor
> who don't usually claim they're leading the intonation.

Hi Carl and Aaron,

The lead is the second voice in the mix, right? And the tenor
sings (mostly) above him, so I can see the tenor taking pitch
from the lead at all times. Since, as Aaron says, the bass sings
Pythagorean, mostly on root and fifth, and the lead doesn't,
the baritone is sandwiched between bass and lead. Who does
he take his pitch from - lead or bass?

Regards,
Yahya

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> Hi Carl and Aaron,
>
> The lead is the second voice in the mix, right? And the tenor
> sings (mostly) above him, so I can see the tenor taking pitch
> from the lead at all times. Since, as Aaron says, the bass sings
> Pythagorean, mostly on root and fifth, and the lead doesn't,
> the baritone is sandwiched between bass and lead. Who does
> he take his pitch from - lead or bass?
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

Baritone does is not always below the lead. Baritone fills whatever it the missing note in
each chord. Sometimes that is above the melody, sometimes below. The baritone's job is
different in each case. The main view is that it is the baritone's job to harmonize and
blend in such a way that the baritone is the glue between the lead and bass. As far as
tuning, the baritone generally tunes to the bass. The standard stance in quartet formation
is bari, bass, lead, tenor. So the baritone is the one part NOT standing next to the lead.
The parts can be close and cross often. The baritone definitely is tighter with the bass
than the lead. Still, the idea that the baritone glues them together is there. Overall, the
baritone listens for the chord harmonics and matches overtones and such.

-Aaron

> Hi Carl and Aaron,
>
> The lead is the second voice in the mix, right? And the tenor
> sings (mostly) above him, so I can see the tenor taking pitch
> from the lead at all times. Since, as Aaron says, the bass sings
> Pythagorean, mostly on root and fifth, and the lead doesn't,
> the baritone is sandwiched between bass and lead. Who does
> he take his pitch from - lead or bass?
>
> Regards,
> Yahya

Hi Yahya,

With ensemble intonation, everybody tunes to everybody else.
If any part thinks they are the "lead" in this respect, the
intonation will be poor. Nevertheless, I think bass is
the least derivative part. I can sing all four parts of (most)
barbershop arrangements. When I made 4-track recordings of
myself, I tried putting the lead first and the bass first.
Bass first seemed to produce the best results.

I certainly listen as much to the bass as I do the lead when
singing tenor. Of course this depends on the passage. If
there are parallel 3rds or something with the lead, then
I'll tune to that.

Probably baritone is the most derivative part intonation-
wise, listening more to the bass and lead than the tenor.

-Carl

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006, Aaron Wolf wrote:

> > The lead is the second voice in the mix, right? And the tenor
> > sings (mostly) above him, so I can see the tenor taking pitch
> > from the lead at all times. Since, as Aaron says, the bass sings
> > Pythagorean, mostly on root and fifth, and the lead doesn't,
> > the baritone is sandwiched between bass and lead. Who does
> > he take his pitch from - lead or bass?
> >
> Baritone does is not always below the lead. Baritone fills whatever it
the missing note in
> each chord. Sometimes that is above the melody, sometimes below. The
baritone's job is
> different in each case. The main view is that it is the baritone's job to
harmonize and
> blend in such a way that the baritone is the glue between the lead and
bass. As far as
> tuning, the baritone generally tunes to the bass. The standard stance in
quartet formation
> is bari, bass, lead, tenor. So the baritone is the one part NOT standing
next to the lead.
> The parts can be close and cross often. The baritone definitely is
tighter with the bass
> than the lead. Still, the idea that the baritone glues them together is
there. Overall, the
> baritone listens for the chord harmonics and matches overtones and such.

Thanks, Aaron! That's much clearer now. As a lad, I used
to sing alto to bolster the numbers in my Mum's (SATB)
choir, which always had plenty of sopranos and basses, and
usually enough tenors to get by, but lacked altos. It struck
me then how few pieces were written with a view to giving
the alto a singable part - we were _always_ plugging the
gaps in the harmony.

Regards,
Yahya

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> The standard stance in quartet formation
> is bari, bass, lead, tenor. So the baritone is the one part NOT
> standing next to the lead.

That's the standard performance setup, though arguments can
be made for others. But in woodshedding, we stand in a square,
facing one another.

-Carl