Subject: No drone in Indian music before 12th century (was: Re: More on shruti-s)

> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:41:14 -0000
> From: "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@hotmail.com>
> Subject: No drone in Indian music before 12th century (was: Re: More on shruti-s)
> > Dear Ozan,
> > The way I understand modulation, it can be between different tonal
> centres, and between different tonal types (major and minor tonalities). > > An example: we can modulate from the major tonality of C to:
> 1. A different tonal centre, but the same tonal type, such as F major;
> 2. The same tonal centre, but a different tonal type, which is c minor;
> 3. A different tonal centre and a different tonal type, such as f minor.
> > And what I contend is that modulation in the above sense does not
> exist in Indian music. I stand corrected if the term 'modulation' does
> not mean what I think it means.
> The Karnatic Raga Malika (Garland of Ragas) is of type 2 (BTW, the most amazing example of this might be the Mela Raga Malika by Maha Vaidynatha Sivan, with an unisual text in Sanskrit,which goes through all 72 of the Melakarta ragas.

DJW

Subject: No drone in Indian music before 12th century (was: Re: More on shruti-s)

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> >
> > For the love of Allah, will no one condone the usage of the term
> > modulation as this poor soul imagines it to be?

Deciding whether a modulation has taken place or not is a bit like deciding whether something is bigger than a breadbox. How big is a breadbox? (I suppose it depends a lot upon how big the local loaf of bread might be.) How long does a stretch of music have to be in order to justify calling it a modulation? (It depends upon the musical context; perhaps sometimes upon the technical means: are different frets or fingerings used? do strings need to be retuned?)

There are other useful terms -- sequence, tonicization -- for tropes of the kind that are less substantial in duration than full-blown modulations. Perhaps the Raga Malaka suggests a model: while within a given Raga of the garland, sequences may be used, and other degrees of the scale may be tonicised (this is especially true in the sharpened Ma Ragas), the collection of pitches used is stable. The term modulation is hen reserved for actually changes of Raga, i.e. real long-span changes in the pitch collection.

DJW

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
>>>> The Karnatic Raga Malika (Garland of Ragas) ........ >>>>

Hi Daniel,

1. The variety called raga-malika [maalikaa = a garland], or
raga-sagar [saagara = the ocean], is a set of compositions in
different raga-s. This is an interesting sub-genre of Karnatic or
Hindustani music, though not often included in a performance. Here the
raga-s are not treated in depth. When we talk about a typical
classical recital, we do not think of a raga-malika.

In a raga-malika, the different raga-s -- more accurately, chiefly,
the compositions of those raga-s -- are rendered in quick succession.
The 'Sa' (tonic) remains unchanged throughout the performance of a
raga-malika. Only the the raga-related notes change. This is very
different from anything like modulation.

Regards,
Haresh.

Paul likes to substitute modulation with `dronality` in Hindustani/Carnatic
Sangeets. I do not. All this leads to scholastic bickerings that overshadow
the actual phenomenon IMNSHO.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 22 �ubat 2006 �ar�amba 23:09
Subject: [tuning] Subject: No drone in Indian music before 12th century
(was: Re: More on shruti-s)

>
> Subject: No drone in Indian music before 12th century (was: Re: More on
> shruti-s)
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > For the love of Allah, will no one condone the usage of the term
> > > modulation as this poor soul imagines it to be?
>
> Deciding whether a modulation has taken place or not is a bit like
> deciding whether something is bigger than a breadbox. How big is a
> breadbox? (I suppose it depends a lot upon how big the local loaf of
> bread might be.) How long does a stretch of music have to be in order
> to justify calling it a modulation? (It depends upon the musical
> context; perhaps sometimes upon the technical means: are different frets
> or fingerings used? do strings need to be retuned?)
>
> There are other useful terms -- sequence, tonicization -- for tropes of
> the kind that are less substantial in duration than full-blown
> modulations. Perhaps the Raga Malaka suggests a model: while within a
> given Raga of the garland, sequences may be used, and other degrees of
> the scale may be tonicised (this is especially true in the sharpened Ma
> Ragas), the collection of pitches used is stable. The term modulation is
> hen reserved for actually changes of Raga, i.e. real long-span changes
> in the pitch collection.
>
> DJW
>
>

Dear Haresh, how many modes can you identify within a raga such as the ones
you delineated below?

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 23 �ubat 2006 Per�embe 4:06
Subject: [tuning] Re No drone in Indian music before 12th century (was: Re:
More on shruti-s

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
> >>>> The Karnatic Raga Malika (Garland of Ragas) ........ >>>>
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> 1. The variety called raga-malika [maalikaa = a garland], or
> raga-sagar [saagara = the ocean], is a set of compositions in
> different raga-s. This is an interesting sub-genre of Karnatic or
> Hindustani music, though not often included in a performance. Here the
> raga-s are not treated in depth. When we talk about a typical
> classical recital, we do not think of a raga-malika.
>
> In a raga-malika, the different raga-s -- more accurately, chiefly,
> the compositions of those raga-s -- are rendered in quick succession.
> The 'Sa' (tonic) remains unchanged throughout the performance of a
> raga-malika. Only the the raga-related notes change. This is very
> different from anything like modulation.
>
> Regards,
> Haresh.
>
>
>