Clock Pitch notation

Don't know if another group would be best for this but wondered why the clock was never used as a paradigm for tuning.

set C as 12, and 1 as C sharp etc, Then 12:30 is the 1/4 tone between C and C sharp. There would be minutes and seconds so an accuracy of 43200 divisions per octave using seconds or 720 divisions using minutes only.

Just a passing thought....

Mark

Hi Mark,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gould <mark@...> wrote:
>
> Don't know if another group would be best for this
> but wondered why the clock was never used as a paradigm
> for tuning.
>
> set C as 12, and 1 as C sharp etc, Then 12:30 is the
> 1/4 tone between C and C sharp. There would be minutes
> and seconds so an accuracy of 43200 divisions per octave
> using seconds or 720 divisions using minutes only.

I don't know of any previous advocacy of this system,
but something similar was mentioned by Woolhouse:

http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/woolhouse/essay.htm#intervals

Woolhouse used the 360 degrees of a circle as his basis
instead of the 12 hours of a clock, but then similarly
subdivided those into 60 minutes and 60 seconds, for a
total of 1,296,000 divisions per octave -- which he
dismisses as "of no advantage in musical computations".

If you read further, you'll see that the small interval
measurement Woolhouse advocated was 730-edo, which is in
the neighborhood of your "minutes only" 720-edo. Note that
Woolhouse's use of 730-edo predates Ellis's invention
of the 1200-edo "cents" by about 40 years.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:

> http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/woolhouse/essay.htm#intervals
>
...
> If you read further, you'll see that the small interval
> measurement Woolhouse advocated was 730-edo, which is in
> the neighborhood of your "minutes only" 720-edo. Note that
> Woolhouse's use of 730-edo predates Ellis's invention
> of the 1200-edo "cents" by about 40 years.
>
>
Not invention,

"The first person to propose the measuring of musical intervals by
equal Semitones was, I believe, de Prony, but I have not been able to
see his pamphlet ; the next was the late Professor de Morgan ("Cam.
Phil. Trans.," x, 129), from whom I learned it, and I employed it in
the Appendix of my translation of Helmholtz, by the advice of Mr.
Bosanquet. Having found that two places of decimals sufficed for most
purposes, I was led to take the second place, or hundredth of an equal
Semitone as the unit, and I have extensively employed this practice,
here for the first time published, with the greatest advantage. In
fact, I do not know how I could have expressed the results of the
present investigation in any other brief and precise, and at the same
time suggestive, method." (Ellis, A. (1884) Tonometrical Observations
on some existing Non harmonic Musical Scales.)

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "threesixesinarow" <CACCOLA@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@> wrote:
>
> > http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/woolhouse/essay.htm#intervals
> >
> ...
> > If you read further, you'll see that the small interval
> > measurement Woolhouse advocated was 730-edo, which is in
> > the neighborhood of your "minutes only" 720-edo. Note that
> > Woolhouse's use of 730-edo predates Ellis's invention
> > of the 1200-edo "cents" by about 40 years.
> >
> >
> Not invention,
>
> "The first person to propose the measuring of musical intervals
> by equal Semitones was, I believe, de Prony, but I have not
> been able to see his pamphlet ; the next was the late Professor
> de Morgan ("Cam. Phil. Trans.," x, 129), from whom I learned
> it, and I employed it in the Appendix of my translation of
> Helmholtz, by the advice of Mr. Bosanquet. Having found that
> two places of decimals sufficed for most purposes, I was led
> to take the second place, or hundredth of an equal Semitone
> as the unit, and I have extensively employed this practice,
> here for the first time published, with the greatest advantage.
> In fact, I do not know how I could have expressed the results
> of the present investigation in any other brief and precise,
> and at the same time suggestive, method." (Ellis, A. (1884)
> Tonometrical Observations on some existing Non harmonic
> Musical Scales.)

I thought about changing "invention" to "advocacy" or "proposal"
before i clicked "Send", because i just *knew* that someone
would have something to say about it!

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:

> > set C as 12, and 1 as C sharp etc, Then 12:30 is the
> > 1/4 tone between C and C sharp. There would be minutes
> > and seconds so an accuracy of 43200 divisions per octave
> > using seconds or 720 divisions using minutes only.
>
>
> I don't know of any previous advocacy of this system,
> but something similar was mentioned by Woolhouse:

Somewhat similar is my advocacy of 46032-et as a replacement for the
unfortunate notion of Temperament Units. Another division around the
same size is 49152.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@> wrote:
>
> > > set C as 12, and 1 as C sharp etc, Then 12:30 is the
> > > 1/4 tone between C and C sharp. There would be minutes
> > > and seconds so an accuracy of 43200 divisions per octave
> > > using seconds or 720 divisions using minutes only.
> >
> >
> > I don't know of any previous advocacy of this system,
> > but something similar was mentioned by Woolhouse:
>
> Somewhat similar is my advocacy of 46032-et as a replacement
> for the unfortunate notion of Temperament Units. Another
> division around the same size is 49152.

Yep, i thought of that last one right away too.
It's the "dodekamu", which i like to abbreviate as "12mu".

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software