Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: F in G7 as 21/16 rather than 4/3..

> [John deLaubenfels, TD 411.6]
>
> First, let me re-state where I'm coming from. My ear
> demands everything, Bach included, in 7-limit tuning.
> There, a tritone is something to be tuned, either as
> 7/5 or as 10/7, according to context. In 5-limit, as
> I am slowly learning, a tritone is something to be
> subject to creative fudging, along with creative
> rationalizations about why it should be dissonant, yet
> we should still call this "Just Intonation".
>
> To reach an understanding of the beauty of 7-limit
> dynamic tuning, it is necessary to get past an intolerance
> for shifts of sub-comma and perhaps even an occasional
> super-comma step. I am here to say that it IS possible
> to stretch one's ear's tolerance, and that the tradeoffs
> are well worth it, with a beauty that 5-limit falls far
> short of.
>
> I would gladly leave 5-limit adaptive tuning to someone
> else, since I never listen to 5-limit unless there's some
> non-musical reason to do so. In fact, I have often
> considered withdrawing the 5-limit versions of the pieces
> I tune, if for no other reason than because I generate them
> and post them without hearing them.
>
> However, some people still like 5-limit tuning, for whatever
> reason, and it is fun to dabble in pleasing other people's
> taste. And, as for leaving 5-limit tuning to others, so
> far no one has stepped up to the plate with more than the
> barest vaporware.

John,

I'm stepping up to the plate just to argue some of the things
you say here. Of course, your own personal choices in tuning
need no defense other than that that is what you like
- there are lots of people who love 7-limit ratios.

And I completely agree that 'it IS possible to stretch
one's ear's tolerance'.

But I think you're off the mark when you say 'the tradeoffs
are well worth it, with a beauty that 5-limit falls far short
of'. Indeed, you don't even listen to the retuned 5-limit
stuff you post, so what kind of authority do you have to
make statements like that?

Don't forget that an extended 5-limit system can easily
make use of the 225/224 'bridge', treating 225/128 as a
7/4 (which is only ~7.712 cents lower in pitch or narrower
in interval size) while still exploiting its 5-limit
relationships; or, for that matter, that in 7-limit
music it can work the other way around, and the 7/4 can
be treated as a 225/128. I've done exactly this in some
of my own compostiions, and this is just one example from
among many.

Given your small 'errors' of a few cents in your Adaptive JI
algorithm, I'd think that you would be particularly interested
in exploiting this kind of thing.

There's no reason to assume that 5-limit tuning is simplistic
or that its possibilities have been exhausted - there's
still plenty that's never been done, or even thought of.

Always on the lookout to confront dogmatic statements
about tuning,
:)

-monz

PS - I am in the last few days of finishing up a major
paper on Aristoxenus. As soon as I make it into a webpage,
I'll post it here. 'Stay tuned'.

Joseph L. Monzo Philadelphia monz@juno.com
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
|"...I had broken thru the lattice barrier..."|
| - Erv Wilson |
--------------------------------------------------

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Re: F in G7 as 21/16 rather than 4/3..

🔗Joe Monzo <monz@xxxx.xxxx>

🔗Paul H. Erlich <PErlich@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxx>