AW.: Re: WAS: missed by the unimaginative (Ives on tuning)

In the 1970's, at his studio in L.A., Sol Babitz was kind enough to share
with me the letter J. Reinhard cited. But even re-reading it now, I can't for
the life of me find a clear instruction to performers regarding intonation.
Yes, Ives did have some rather tentative ideas about intonation, but his
application of those ideas in scores was never consistant, let alone final.
Thus, in the score in question, the first page had notations reflecting these
concerns at that stage in the composition, and he wanted the notation left as
it was, but the rest of the piece did not not follow from such considerations
and the notation was unexceptional.

Let me just add that the title Reinhard choose for this thread bothers me
enormously. Its immediate implication is that anyone who doesn't agree to
Reinhard's interpretation is "unimaginative": Am I the only one out there
that has trouble imagining Mr. Ives agreeing to such an authoritarian posture?

I have been very careful not to close the book on the intonation issue and to
that end I am working full time to uncover clues to understanding where Ives
is coming from and posting them to the list.

The positive thing to do is to gather all the evidence and make a full case
and that is my intention. Trying to convince a Muslim to be a Catholic would
be more difficult than trying to convince certain prejudices. When working
with microtonal concerts in the '80s there were many that challenged on the
grounds that microtones were not appropriate for a serious career. Now it is
the microtonalists that attack each other, much as politicians of different
parties.

I'm satisfied to end this thread, only to present a full case in the coming
chapter. Personally, I think people have always sold Charles Ives short and
that this condition continues. Perhaps it seems like simple audacity for any
individual to presume to read into another's words things that were missed by
others. But that's all it takes for the idea and understanding to spread.

For Ives to imagine the "Universe Symphony" is for Ives to imagine pure
tuning as given by the cycle of fifths, the basis for the theory of keys.
Just as one shouldn't review a book or a movie without reading or viewing it,
perhaps one should hear the difference that the tuning adjustment in
performance makes before pronouncing judgment. By connecting the
circumstantial evidence, I believe we can get to the core of Mr. Ives's
imagination.

Johnny Reinhard
AFMM

Today I had a nice Sushi lunch with Ted Coons, President of the AFMM and a
Psychology prof at NYU. I had the opportunity to show him that George Ives
had indicated in his essay on music theory that a C# is higher than a Db. It
was exciting to read that George (Charles's Dad) wanted to call the first
chromatic interval, a C-Db, a "First"! The "Second" would be a C to a C#
indicated.

George Ives in Carol K. Baron's article in American Music (Fall 1992) is
ranking (in the Brooklyn sense) on all the usual nomencalture. This includes
all the usual culprits, the interval names, the written notation, the octave.
George says that "If" one uses the notation for real sounds learned, then it
could be used more effectively. It seems to me that his son took up the
challenge.

At lunch, I had the chance to explain to Ted why C# being higher than Db was
so important to the issue at hand. After explaining he though it necessary
that I tell this to the list.

If we take a Circle of 5ths from A we get A-E, E-B, B-F#, F#-C#
we have A-C# after removing octaves at 408 cents (81/64)

If we start an Overtone Series from A we get A-A, A-E, E-A, A-C#
we have A-C# after removing octaves at 386 cents (5/4)

These 2 distinct operations give a diferent value for C#, though it is
notated similarly. If Charles Ives insists that a C# is higher than a Db in
his "acoustic plan" for works like the Concord Sonata, Universe Symphony, and
Unanswered Question, then the plan must fit one or the other paradigm. I
look forward to making available a published score, studio recording, and
matching book to explain all this for release in April 2001.

Question to Microthoners: What do you think of Brooklyn Heights for a
location in May at the Quaker Friends Auditorium?

Johnny Reinhard
AFMM