Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning nonoctave intervallic packages : RE: [tuning] Re: about naming tritave and ......

Hi gene

Although it is possible to have nonoctave scales from edos and changing
them to ocatavic structures but deletion of it changes the melodic taste
also. In my view, scale is a package of intervals of a tuning system
generated by a tuning and temperament model, closed with ocatve for
melodic or harmonic needs . package of intervals can be nonoctave and
also a tetrachord or a 3-interval package . here you see a tetrachord of
iranian chahargah mode (in cent) as a package of intervals which can be
repeated continously forward and backward. This tetrachord is extracted
from 11 equal divisions of equal fourth or 11-ED(500c):

.........0.....136.36.....409.09.....500.........

This tetrachordal structure is near to parts of 53-edo.you can see the
repetition of the package here :

45.45454545
1 1 1 0 0 110 0

90.90909091
2 1 2 1200 1586.313714 275
226.6162448

136.3636364
3 1 3 1901.955001 2492.778693
464.2233534 453.2324897

181.8181818
4 1 4 2400 3172.627428 687.5
679.8487345

227.2727273
5 1 5 2786.313714 3625.859917
893.2434655 906.4649794

272.7272727
6 1 6 3101.955001 4079.092407
1160.558384 1133.081224

318.1818182
7 1 7 3368.825906 4532.324897
1507.870826 1359.697469

363.6363636
8 1 8 3600 4758.941142 1718.75
1586.313714

409.0909091
9 1 9 3803.910002 4985.557386
1959.121108

454.5454545
10 1 10 3986.313714 5212.173631
2233.108664

500
11 1 11 4151.317942 5438.789876
2545.414004

545.4545455
12 1 12 4301.955001 5665.406121
2901.395959

590.9090909
13 1 13 4440.527662 5892.022366
3307.162802

636.3636364
14 1 14 4568.825906 6118.638611
3769.677064

681.8181818
15 1 15 4688.268715 6345.254855
4296.875

727.2727273
16 1 16 4800

772.7272727
17 1 17 4904.95541

818.1818182
18 1 18 5003.910002

863.6363636
19 1 19 5097.513016

909.0909091 409.0909091
20 1 20 5186.313714

954.5454545 454.5454545
21 1 21 5270.780907

1000
22 1 22 5351.317942

1045.454545 545.4545455
23 1 23 5428.274347

1090.909091 590.9090909
24 1 24 5501.955001

1136.363636 636.3636364
25 1 25 5572.627428

1181.818182 681.8181818
26 1 26 5640.527662

1227.272727

........ 727.2727273
27 1 27 5705.865003

You see that 500 cent is interval of equivalency .Repetition of the
above tetrachordal package makes a new structure in chahargah which
doesn't exist in iranain music.( The chahargah mode is an octavic scale
). In this example we see interval of 2409.091 cent as fifty third
degree(2400+ third degree/10).

Shaahin Mohaajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Composer

www.geocities.com/acousticsoftombak

My tombak musics : www.rhythmweb.com/gdg

My articles in ''Harmonytalk'':

www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html
<http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html>

www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html
<http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html>

My article in DrumDojo:

www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm
<http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Gene Ward Smith
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:48 AM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Re: about naming tritave and ......

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@...> wrote:

> Gene asked about avoiding octaves (concerning to the choice to do not
> the octave as equivalence interval). I like the idea to tinkering with

> other modulos; BP is a good example of a non-octave scale.

On the other hand it's closely related to bohpier temperament, for
which you can use 5 out of 41 or 16 out of 131 as a generator, and
treat as you would any 7-limit linear temperament.

My inclination with nonoctave temperaments is to subvert them by
adding back octaves. For instance, with 88 cents steps, which is by
definition definable in 150-edo, why not treat it that way? Or instead
of 11 steps of 150, 5 steps of 68 will work. I've considered trying to
write something in five parts, each part of which was confined to the
88.235 step scale of 68 notes equal to a certain number modulo five.
Each *part* is in the Morrison scale, but the whole thing is another
story.

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🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>

I had started by dividing the fifth into 33 equal parts in my 79 MOS 159-tET suggestion.

Oz.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mohajeri Shahin
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 05 Şubat 2006 Pazar 14:27
Subject: nonoctave intervallic packages : RE: [tuning] Re: about naming tritave and ......

Hi gene

Although it is possible to have nonoctave scales from edos and changing them to ocatavic structures but deletion of it changes the melodic taste also. In my view, scale is a package of intervals of a tuning system generated by a tuning and temperament model, closed with ocatve for melodic or harmonic needs . package of intervals can be nonoctave and also a tetrachord or a 3-interval package . here you see a tetrachord of iranian chahargah mode (in cent) as a package of intervals which can be repeated continously forward and backward. This tetrachord is extracted from 11 equal divisions of equal fourth or 11-ED(500c):

………0…..136.36…..409.09…..500………

This tetrachordal structure is near to parts of 53-edo.you can see the repetition of the package here :

45.45454545 1 1 1 0 0 110 0

90.90909091 2 1 2 1200 1586.313714 275 226.6162448

136.3636364 3 1 3 1901.955001 2492.778693 464.2233534 453.2324897

181.8181818 4 1 4 2400 3172.627428 687.5 679.8487345

227.2727273 5 1 5 2786.313714 3625.859917 893.2434655 906.4649794

272.7272727 6 1 6 3101.955001 4079.092407 1160.558384 1133.081224

318.1818182 7 1 7 3368.825906 4532.324897 1507.870826 1359.697469

363.6363636 8 1 8 3600 4758.941142 1718.75 1586.313714

409.0909091 9 1 9 3803.910002 4985.557386 1959.121108

454.5454545 10 1 10 3986.313714 5212.173631 2233.108664

500 11 1 11 4151.317942 5438.789876 2545.414004

545.4545455 12 1 12 4301.955001 5665.406121 2901.395959

590.9090909 13 1 13 4440.527662 5892.022366 3307.162802

636.3636364 14 1 14 4568.825906 6118.638611 3769.677064

681.8181818 15 1 15 4688.268715 6345.254855 4296.875

727.2727273 16 1 16 4800

772.7272727 17 1 17 4904.95541

818.1818182 18 1 18 5003.910002

863.6363636 19 1 19 5097.513016

909.0909091 409.0909091 20 1 20 5186.313714

954.5454545 454.5454545 21 1 21 5270.780907

1000 22 1 22 5351.317942

1045.454545 545.4545455 23 1 23 5428.274347

1090.909091 590.9090909 24 1 24 5501.955001

1136.363636 636.3636364 25 1 25 5572.627428

1181.818182 681.8181818 26 1 26 5640.527662

1227.272727

…….. 727.2727273 27 1 27 5705.865003

You see that 500 cent is interval of equivalency .Repetition of the above tetrachordal package makes a new structure in chahargah which doesn’t exist in iranain music.( The chahargah mode is an octavic scale ). In this example we see interval of 2409.091 cent as fifty third degree(2400+ third degree/10).

Shaahin Mohaajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Composer

www.geocities.com/acousticsoftombak

My tombak musics : www.rhythmweb.com/gdg

My articles in ''Harmonytalk'':

www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html

www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html

My article in DrumDojo:

www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm

🔗wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>

> You see that 500 cent is interval of equivalency

I don't. I see that it's the interval of repetition for your scale.
But an interval of equivalence should sound so much like the same
note that two notes separated by it get the same name. Do two notes
separated by 500 cents get the same name in Iranian music?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin" <shahinm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi gene
>
>
>
> Although it is possible to have nonoctave scales from edos and
changing
> them to ocatavic structures but deletion of it changes the melodic
taste
> also. In my view, scale is a package of intervals of a tuning system
> generated by a tuning and temperament model, closed with ocatve for
> melodic or harmonic needs . package of intervals can be nonoctave
and
> also a tetrachord or a 3-interval package . here you see a
tetrachord of
> iranian chahargah mode (in cent) as a package of intervals which
can be
> repeated continously forward and backward. This tetrachord is
extracted
> from 11 equal divisions of equal fourth or 11-ED(500c):
>
> .........0.....136.36.....409.09.....500.........
>
> This tetrachordal structure is near to parts of 53-edo.you can see
the
> repetition of the package here :
>
> 0
>
>
> 45.45454545
> 1 1 1 0 0 110 0
>
> 90.90909091
> 2 1 2 1200 1586.313714 275
> 226.6162448
>
> 136.3636364
> 3 1 3 1901.955001 2492.778693
> 464.2233534 453.2324897
>
> 181.8181818
> 4 1 4 2400 3172.627428 687.5
> 679.8487345
>
> 227.2727273
> 5 1 5 2786.313714 3625.859917
> 893.2434655 906.4649794
>
> 272.7272727
> 6 1 6 3101.955001 4079.092407
> 1160.558384 1133.081224
>
> 318.1818182
> 7 1 7 3368.825906 4532.324897
> 1507.870826 1359.697469
>
> 363.6363636
> 8 1 8 3600 4758.941142 1718.75
> 1586.313714
>
> 409.0909091
> 9 1 9 3803.910002 4985.557386
> 1959.121108
>
> 454.5454545
> 10 1 10 3986.313714 5212.173631
> 2233.108664
>
> 500
> 11 1 11 4151.317942 5438.789876
> 2545.414004
>
> 545.4545455
> 12 1 12 4301.955001 5665.406121
> 2901.395959
>
> 590.9090909
> 13 1 13 4440.527662 5892.022366
> 3307.162802
>
> 636.3636364
> 14 1 14 4568.825906 6118.638611
> 3769.677064
>
> 681.8181818
> 15 1 15 4688.268715 6345.254855
> 4296.875
>
> 727.2727273
> 16 1 16 4800
>
> 772.7272727
> 17 1 17 4904.95541
>
> 818.1818182
> 18 1 18 5003.910002
>
> 863.6363636
> 19 1 19 5097.513016
>
> 909.0909091 409.0909091
> 20 1 20 5186.313714
>
> 954.5454545 454.5454545
> 21 1 21 5270.780907
>
> 1000
> 22 1 22 5351.317942
>
> 1045.454545 545.4545455
> 23 1 23 5428.274347
>
> 1090.909091 590.9090909
> 24 1 24 5501.955001
>
> 1136.363636 636.3636364
> 25 1 25 5572.627428
>
> 1181.818182 681.8181818
> 26 1 26 5640.527662
>
> 1227.272727
>
> ........ 727.2727273
> 27 1 27 5705.865003
>
> You see that 500 cent is interval of equivalency .Repetition of the
> above tetrachordal package makes a new structure in chahargah which
> doesn't exist in iranain music.( The chahargah mode is an octavic
scale
> ). In this example we see interval of 2409.091 cent as fifty third
> degree(2400+ third degree/10).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Shaahin Mohaajeri
>
>
>
> Tombak Player & Researcher , Composer
>
> www.geocities.com/acousticsoftombak
>
> My tombak musics : www.rhythmweb.com/gdg
>
> My articles in ''Harmonytalk'':
>
> www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html
> <http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html>
>
> www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html
> <http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html>
>
> My article in DrumDojo:
>
> www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm
> <http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Gene Ward Smith
> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:48 AM
> To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [tuning] Re: about naming tritave and ......
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Hudson Lacerda <hfmlacerda@> wrote:
>
> > Gene asked about avoiding octaves (concerning to the choice to do
not
> > the octave as equivalence interval). I like the idea to tinkering
with
>
> > other modulos; BP is a good example of a non-octave scale.
>
> On the other hand it's closely related to bohpier temperament, for
> which you can use 5 out of 41 or 16 out of 131 as a generator, and
> treat as you would any 7-limit linear temperament.
>
> My inclination with nonoctave temperaments is to subvert them by
> adding back octaves. For instance, with 88 cents steps, which is by
> definition definable in 150-edo, why not treat it that way? Or
instead
> of 11 steps of 150, 5 steps of 68 will work. I've considered trying
to
> write something in five parts, each part of which was confined to
the
> 88.235 step scale of 68 notes equal to a certain number modulo five.
> Each *part* is in the Morrison scale, but the whole thing is another
> story.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
> Music education
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🔗Mohajeri Shahin <shahinm@kayson-ir.com>

Hi paul

Thanks for your correction . interval of repetition is correct and
intervals with 500-cent difference havn't same name.

Shaahin Mohaajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Composer

www.geocities.com/acousticsoftombak

My tombak musics : www.rhythmweb.com/gdg

My articles in ''Harmonytalk'':

www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html
<http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000296.html>

www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html
<http://www.harmonytalk.com/archives/000288.html>

My article in DrumDojo:

www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm
<http://www.drumdojo.com/world/persia/tonbak_acoustics.htm>

________________________________

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of wallyesterpaulrus
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 6:18 AM
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: nonoctave intervallic packages : RE: [tuning] Re: about naming
tritave and ......

> You see that 500 cent is interval of equivalency