Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Notation for Hanson/Keemun

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@g...> wrote:
>
> Is there an existing notation system for the Hanson or Keemun
> temperaments (octave period, generated by 6/5 minor thirds)? I'm
> getting ready to write a piece in it and I don't want to invent my own
> notation system if there's already a "standard" one. =P
>
> Keenan

There are a few; Hanson's own was a takeoff on standard notation but
based on "major and minor thirds" (see Xenharmonikon 17 and previous
issues); Dave Keenan's suggestions are here:

http://dkeenan.com/Music/ChainOfMinor3rds.htm

Herman Miller may have other ideas . . .

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@IO.COM>

wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@g...> wrote:
> >>Is there an existing notation system for the Hanson or Keemun
>>temperaments (octave period, generated by 6/5 minor thirds)? I'm
>>getting ready to write a piece in it and I don't want to invent my own
>>notation system if there's already a "standard" one. =P
>>
>>Keenan
> > > There are a few; Hanson's own was a takeoff on standard notation but > based on "major and minor thirds" (see Xenharmonikon 17 and previous > issues); Dave Keenan's suggestions are here:
> > http://dkeenan.com/Music/ChainOfMinor3rds.htm
> > Herman Miller may have other ideas . . .

I have a keemun[15] notation based on fifths and minor thirds that sounds like it might end up being the same as Hanson's notation (which I was unaware of at the time). It's more or less an adaptation of my porcupine-based 15-ET notation:

E G Bb Db (Fb/E#) G# B D F Ab (Cb/B#) D# F# A C.

As part of a more general system of notation for temperaments, I have a system with nominals ^E ^G B D F vA vC, using Sagittal accidentals )||( and |||( for +4 and +8 steps; the best Sagittal symbol I could come up with for -7 steps was .)X( ... you could use pure Sagittal notation, but you'd need more accidentals.

Of these two options, my preference would be for the one based on the standard notation of minor thirds E# - Cb, especially if it turns out to be compatible with Hanson's notation. As an example of what _not_ to do, an earlier notation I used was based on a 12-note keyboard mapping:

D F A C D# F# A# C# E G B

That's fine if you happen to have your keyboard mapped that way, but it's not apparent how this could be extended to larger scales.

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 1/19/06, wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Is there an existing notation system for the Hanson or Keemun
> > temperaments (octave period, generated by 6/5 minor thirds)? I'm
> > getting ready to write a piece in it and I don't want to invent my own
> > notation system if there's already a "standard" one. =P
> >
> > Keenan
>
> There are a few; Hanson's own was a takeoff on standard notation but
> based on "major and minor thirds" (see Xenharmonikon 17 and previous
> issues); Dave Keenan's suggestions are here:
>
> http://dkeenan.com/Music/ChainOfMinor3rds.htm
>
> Herman Miller may have other ideas . . .

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for.

Keenan

🔗wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Herman Miller <hmiller@I...> wrote:
>
> wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@g...>
wrote:
> >
> >>Is there an existing notation system for the Hanson or Keemun
> >>temperaments (octave period, generated by 6/5 minor thirds)? I'm
> >>getting ready to write a piece in it and I don't want to invent
my own
> >>notation system if there's already a "standard" one. =P
> >>
> >>Keenan
> >
> >
> > There are a few; Hanson's own was a takeoff on standard notation
but
> > based on "major and minor thirds" (see Xenharmonikon 17 and
previous
> > issues); Dave Keenan's suggestions are here:
> >
> > http://dkeenan.com/Music/ChainOfMinor3rds.htm
> >
> > Herman Miller may have other ideas . . .
>
> I have a keemun[15] notation based on fifths and minor thirds that
> sounds like it might end up being the same as Hanson's notation
(which I
> was unaware of at the time).

It's not the same. His is "based on major and minor thirds", and I
don't think that even means the same thing for you as for him.

> It's more or less an adaptation of my
> porcupine-based 15-ET notation:
>
> E G Bb Db (Fb/E#) G# B D F Ab (Cb/B#) D# F# A C.

Hanson's circle of 34-equal minor thirds is notated (by Hanson) as
follows:

\E or D##

\G or /F##

\Bb or /A#

\Db or /C#

Fb or /E

Abb or \G#

Cb or \B

Ebb or \D#

Gb or F##

Bbb or A#

Db or C##

\F or E#

/Ab or G##

\C or B#

\Eb or D#

\Gb or /F#

\Bbb or /A

/C or B##

and back to the beginning . . .

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org>

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@IO.COM>

wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Herman Miller <hmiller@I...> wrote:
>>I have a keemun[15] notation based on fifths and minor thirds that >>sounds like it might end up being the same as Hanson's notation > > (which I > >>was unaware of at the time).
> > > It's not the same. His is "based on major and minor thirds", and I > don't think that even means the same thing for you as for him.

On first glance, it appears to be more similar than different, and some of the differences may be related to its use as a 34-equal notation (where each note of 34-ET can have more than one place in the chain of minor thirds, since it wraps around). I'll have to look more closely at this; it seems like a unified notation can be worked out.

🔗Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@gmail.com>

On 1/20/06, Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Keenan Pepper <keenanpepper@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Is there an existing notation system for the Hanson or Keemun
> > temperaments (octave period, generated by 6/5 minor thirds)? I'm
> > getting ready to write a piece in it and I don't want to invent my own
> > notation system if there's already a "standard" one. =P
>
> What tuning are you thinking to use? There's something to be said for
> using 53 or 72 with the "wrong" mapping for 7, but of course 34 works
> also.

I've been using TOP Keemun. I thought about 19-EDO but it doesn't have
the pure fifths and the septimal intervals are even worse. My keyboard
just doesn't have enough keys for those higher EDOs to be useful.

Keenan