Re: [tuning] Digest Number 3788

> 4. Acoustic Instrument Fallacy? (timbral "richness" vs tuning > accuracy):
> From: "Bill Flavell" <bill_flavell@email.com>

My 2 cents is that very small pitch deviations are not going to be heard in rapid music, but in slow music tiny deviations become apparent. As for instrumental variance, many talk of 'psychoacoustic' interval classes, which when used in certain scale formations means that tempering such scales does not radically alter the 'perception' of the music. What change is perceived is almost at the colouristic level.

some on the list speak of 'diatonic' or 'pentatonic' hearing. I suspect other forms of 'hearing' are possible, based on other numbers of tones.

Where I stand is that these other patterns of hearing will conform to scales having similar patterns to the ones we already know. Of course, these patterns would be realised in scales that have a ratio-based origin, which can then be 'adulterated' by temperament, to achieve the same ends as the 7white 5black chromatic does. JI should always be seen as the ideal, whereas temperament is the result of the typically human process of trying to have one's cake and eat it.

Mark

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gould <mark@e...> wrote:

> some on the list speak of 'diatonic' or 'pentatonic' hearing. I
suspect
> other forms of 'hearing' are possible, based on other numbers of
tones.
>
> Where I stand is that these other patterns of hearing will conform
to
> scales having similar patterns to the ones we already know. Of
course,
> these patterns would be realised in scales that have a ratio-based
> origin, which can then be 'adulterated' by temperament, to achieve
the
> same ends as the 7white 5black chromatic does. JI should always be
seen
> as the ideal, whereas temperament is the result of the typically
human
> process of trying to have one's cake and eat it.
>
> Mark

This is cool and is in one sense what my 'Middle Path' paper is
about -- finding other scales that derive from tempering JI. Some
familiar ones are the augmented (LsLsLs) and diminished (sLsLsLsL)
scales in 12-equal (or better temperaments), but other scales not
possible in 12-equal (and supporting chord cycles that would drift in
12-equal) come out of this investigation too, such as the 7- and 8-
note Porcupine scales for example. Didn't I mail you a copy of part
1, Mark? Did you ever receive it? Anyone else want a copy?

-Paul

Thanks very much for the response, Mark.

Bill Flavell

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gould <mark@e...> wrote:
>
> > 4. Acoustic Instrument Fallacy? (timbral "richness" vs
tuning
> > accuracy):
> > From: "Bill Flavell" <bill_flavell@e...>
>
> My 2 cents is that very small pitch deviations are not going to be
> heard in rapid music, but in slow music tiny deviations become
> apparent. As for instrumental variance, many talk
of 'psychoacoustic'
> interval classes, which when used in certain scale formations means
> that tempering such scales does not radically alter
the 'perception' of
> the music. What change is perceived is almost at the colouristic
level.
>
> some on the list speak of 'diatonic' or 'pentatonic' hearing. I
suspect
> other forms of 'hearing' are possible, based on other numbers of
tones.
>
> Where I stand is that these other patterns of hearing will conform
to
> scales having similar patterns to the ones we already know. Of
course,
> these patterns would be realised in scales that have a ratio-based
> origin, which can then be 'adulterated' by temperament, to achieve
the
> same ends as the 7white 5black chromatic does. JI should always be
seen
> as the ideal, whereas temperament is the result of the typically
human
> process of trying to have one's cake and eat it.
>
> Mark
>