Blues...hey Monz/Ozan

Yo...Monz, great point about European settlers in the US already having pentatonic based music, separate from the Afro thing..and it makes me wonder a few things...how were these penta scales formed/tuned, do you know? Did they come from Pythagorean type theory, or something else...curious. And, were there variations in the tuning? I don't know much about this. And, of course, it brings to mind country music as well, which has often been referred to as white man's blues, which it certainly can be. Hank Williams wrote numerous blues, and Johnny Cash's "Blood Sweat and Tears" is one of my favorite all time blues albums...even though several of the tunes are not traditional blues forms, there's a deep blues feeling there...it's a masterpiece. It's interesting...many great black blues artists were farmers, and grew up in the country, as did many of the white country performers. And although country and blues can overlap in places, often there is a different sound/groove to the music, depending on the race of the players. It's a fascinating subject...blues great Bobby Bland has said that he loved country music, and wanted to sing it professionally, but knew there was no market for it in this society. And Muddy Waters, when interviewed by Alan Lomax in the early 1940's, had 7 Gene Autry tunes in his repertoire...too bad we never got to hear them (Muddy also said once in Guitar Player mag, that Roy Clark was his favorite guitarist).
And Ozan...sorry for lumping Afghan and Arabic music together...I understand your point, and will be more aware of the differences from now on...best...HHH

Thank you kindly Neil. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Haverstick
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 20 Ekim 2005 Perşembe 1:24
Subject: [tuning] Blues...hey Monz/Ozan

Yo...Monz, great point about European settlers in the US already having
pentatonic based music, separate from the Afro thing..and it makes me wonder
a few things...how were these penta scales formed/tuned, do you know? Did
they come from Pythagorean type theory, or something else...curious. And,
were there variations in the tuning? I don't know much about this. And, of
course, it brings to mind country music as well, which has often been
referred to as white man's blues, which it certainly can be. Hank Williams
wrote numerous blues, and Johnny Cash's "Blood Sweat and Tears" is one of my
favorite all time blues albums...even though several of the tunes are not
traditional blues forms, there's a deep blues feeling there...it's a
masterpiece. It's interesting...many great black blues artists were farmers,
and grew up in the country, as did many of the white country performers. And
although country and blues can overlap in places, often there is a different
sound/groove to the music, depending on the race of the players. It's a
fascinating subject...blues great Bobby Bland has said that he loved country
music, and wanted to sing it professionally, but knew there was no market
for it in this society. And Muddy Waters, when interviewed by Alan Lomax in
the early 1940's, had 7 Gene Autry tunes in his repertoire...too bad we
never got to hear them (Muddy also said once in Guitar Player mag, that Roy
Clark was his favorite guitarist).
And Ozan...sorry for lumping Afghan and Arabic music together...I
understand your point, and will be more aware of the differences from now
on...best...HHH

Hi Neil,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Haverstick" <microstick@m...> wrote:
>
> Yo...Monz, great point about European settlers in the
> US already having pentatonic based music, separate from
> the Afro thing..and it makes me wonder a few things...how
> were these penta scales formed/tuned, do you know? Did
> they come from Pythagorean type theory, or something else
> ...curious. And, were there variations in the tuning?
> I don't know much about this.

I'm pretty sure that there's no way any of us now can
tell what those tunings were. You want my guess? Probably
pretty close to 5-limit JI. With pentatonic vocal melodies
i don't think you'd have a problem with commatic-drift etc.
But pythagorean is also a possiblity. And then on the other
hand, meantone was so pervasive in Europe from c.1500 on
that it would be no surprise to me at all if that's what
the European settlers brought to America.

Another thing to consider is the possible influence
that Native-American music may have had on the evolution
of music in America after the "Euro-African invasion".
But i know precious little about the tuning of
Native-American music.

> And, of course, it brings to mind country music as well,
> which has often been referred to as white man's blues,
> which it certainly can be. Hank Williams wrote numerous
> blues, and Johnny Cash's "Blood Sweat and Tears" is one
> of my favorite all time blues albums...even though several
> of the tunes are not traditional blues forms, there's a
> deep blues feeling there...it's a masterpiece. It's
> interesting...many great black blues artists were farmers,
> and grew up in the country, as did many of the white country
> performers. And although country and blues can overlap
> in places, often there is a different sound/groove to
> the music, depending on the race of the players. It's a
> fascinating subject...blues great Bobby Bland has said
> that he loved country music, and wanted to sing it
> professionally, but knew there was no market for it
> in this society. And Muddy Waters, when interviewed by
> Alan Lomax in the early 1940's, had 7 Gene Autry tunes
> in his repertoire...too bad we never got to hear them

Have you seen _Ray_ ... the biopic about Ray Charles
starring Jamie Foxx? I think it's one of the most fantastic
things Hollywood has produced in a long time, and while
i have never done any serious research on Ray Charles,
it seems to me that the facts presented in that movie
are probably genuine. (And Foxx did an *amazing* job of
impersonating Charles!)

Anyway, at the point where Ray changed record labels and
got total control of his music -- *and* a full orchestra
to back him up -- he recorded "I Can't Stop Loving You" in
all its whitey-country glory. His bandmates thought he
went crazy ... but it went on to become his biggest seller
at the time.

> (Muddy also said once in Guitar Player mag, that Roy Clark
> was his favorite guitarist).

Now that's a bit of news i'm *really* surprised to learn!
Wow.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software