UK MicroFest report

We had a microfest near London a few days back, which was an excellent chance to meet people and listen to tuneless music. I'll go through the programme and comment, so as not to leave anything out.

DAY SESSION 1

Composing for Quarter-Tone Alto Flute

This was a mixed lecture and recital. Carla Rees played a Kingma flute. It's got a good, consistent tone, but all we were given was quartertones. There were some electronics as well, which were too loud as tends to be the case at classical events. Give 'em an amplifier, and they think they're rock stars.

The Rosegarden Codicil: Rehearsal Strategies in 19-ET

This team at Glasgow University have hacked the Rosegarden sequencer to help singers learn microtonal scales. You sing into a microphone and it shows how close you're getting to the desired pitch. The examples are, as the title suggests, for 19-equal but it can work with general tunings specified by files using an extension of the Scala format. They also used some PD for electronic backing. They gave out Knoppix CDs so that you can boot into an OS with the software pre-installed. It doesn't work with my soundcard :(

Some Microtonal Experiments

Lecture by Patrick Ozzard-Low. Included some reasons for not liking quartertones, which was good as there were a lot of quartertones around.

recital by William Raaijman

Unaccompanied quartertone saxophone. Very intense performance, this one.

Fine Tuning and Tonal Hybrids

Lecture by Christopher Fox, in which he was outed as using 72-equal. He came to it by mixing quartertones and sixth-tones in the same piece in order to approximate the harmonic series up to 13 or so. He never gets mentioned on these lists, but he's on the radio now and then so he must have a following. He mixes spectralist ideas with equal scales. The "tonal hybrids" in the title refers to what we would call polymicrotonality. Although we might more specifially call it 72-equal.

recital by duo Contour

The trumpets use string to pull the extra valve(s) now, instead of a solenoid. There's one for quartertones, and another for 19-equal. Most pieces used a standard drum kit, but for stuttering accompaniments instead of a back beat. I couldn't really see the point of that. I think this was the one where they had to stop a piece to adjust the drums. More evidence that, while PCs may not be entirely reliable, this doesn't stop acoustic instruments.

Microtonal Procedures ... for Solo Recorder Player

How to play quartertones on your recorder, from what I remember. There was a fingering chart, which I thought about picking up but I sat at the back and they must have had it at the front so I didn't walk past it. I don't know if they work for descant, but if so that would make it a good, cheap microtonal instrument. Still quartertones, though.

Pocket Gamelan: rational for interactive performance using mobile phones

Greg Schiemer on microtonality for Java-based phones. There were problems with the projector in this one, which generally disrupted it and may be why I don't remember much about it. The phones talk to each other with bluetooth and he's hoping to get lots of them working together but the software isn't there yet.

Pythagorean Harmonies in Trompettes de Mort

Margaret Lucy Wilkins, formerly of Huddersfield University, on one of her microtonal pieces. The title says "Pythagorean" but what she was doing looked like it was using the whole harmonic series. The notation uses quartertone accidentals, and it looked like they were relative to equal temperament, not pythagorean intonation. Quite good musically, so if the theory sounds messy it's all in a good cause.

Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches

A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a conference you should book him. The subject was this crazily ambitious notation scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the octave and accidentals to bring it up to 205. He also has a keyboard to play them all across several octaves, along with supporting software, and he's planning to sell it. So watch out. He says he's been on tuning-math before. His websites are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and www.h-pi.com if you want to check it out.

recital by Rare Bird

Rachel Barnes and Natasha Powell doing quartertones with recorders, as explained in the lecture earlier on. A lot of the sound was very harsh. I don't know if that's because you have to blow hard to get the quartertones stable, or that it was written like that. They're big recorders as well, so not even the excuse of being cheap, although no doubt still cheaper than the modified flutes and trumpets.

A Microtonal Manual for the Trumpet

Donald Bousted explaining his book with examples from Stephen Altoft. As Donald organized the festival, this is the bit that fits in with the self-aggrandizing theories. Anyway, it was about playing quartertones on a standard trumpet and changing tubing and adding valves to get 19-equal and those good old quartertones. I was quite impressed with Stephen's virtuosity here, when all he did was play scales. It's a shame he doesn't have some better music to play.

recital by Elizabeth Smalt

The notes don't say who did the vocals here. The highlights were superb performances of music by Harry Partch: some Li Po songs and By The Rivers of Babylon. Bob Gilmore used an inauthentic DX7II in place of the chromelodeon for the latter piece. About the only decent melody in the festival. Maybe it's because I'm more familiar with it, but I'm not that familiar, and it gave the impression that he was streets ahead of everybody else here as a microtonal composer. Tragic, really, as the comparison is mostly with music was written in the 30 years since he died. They couldn't even manage to steal his ideas. The adapted viola is the first fruit of a project to build replicas of Partch instruments in Europe.

Microtonality: my part in its downfall

Lecture by Bob Gilmore, a history of the microtonal movement. For the record, I think Helmholtz, Ellis and Bosanquet would count as 19th Century microtonalists.

Wild Dog 1

An installation with music, video and tents. A nice end to the festival so long as you didn't take it too seriously. I don't know what all the music was, because it doesn't seem to be what the notes say it should have been. It looked like that William Raaijman sneaked back in with his saxophone. Also some documented pieces for microtonal trumpets played by Stephen Altoft. They sounded like the pieces that weren't good enough for the other recitals -- and I don't want to make those appear wonderful by the comparison. If anybody out there wants to write some decent music for trumpet in (or close to) 19- or 24-equal you might be in luck. Unless he's allergic to tunes, and thinks listening to scales in alternative tunings is a really ecstatic experience. The best music was dirty, electronic stuff by Philip Henderson. Not microtonal I take it.

Anyway, that was that. They're planning a UK MicroFest 2 in 2 years time. The call is apparently out, and there might be funding for ambitious projects to give fruit by that date.

Graham

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@g...> wrote:

> Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches
>
> A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a conference
> you should book him. The subject was this crazily ambitious notation
> scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the octave and accidentals to
bring it
> up to 205. He also has a keyboard to play them all across several
> octaves, along with supporting software, and he's planning to sell it.
> So watch out. He says he's been on tuning-math before. His websites
> are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and www.h-pi.com if you want to check
> it out.

205 was one of the edos we considered in the Ozan thread, dedicated to
precisely this question. It has a fifth a half a cent sharp it
inherits from 41, and an excellent meantone fifth of 696.585 cents as
well. It's also not a bad 5-limit system, supporting amity tempering
in fact.

> We had a microfest near London a few days back, which was an
> excellent chance to meet people and listen to tuneless music.
> I'll go through the programme and comment, so as not to leave
> anything out.

Great rundown, Graham. Thanks a lot!

> Pocket Gamelan: rational for interactive performance using
> mobile phones
> Greg Schiemer on microtonality for Java-based phones. There
> were problems with the projector in this one, which generally
> disrupted it and may be why I don't remember much about it.
> The phones talk to each other with bluetooth and he's hoping
> to get lots of them working together but the software isn't
> there yet.

He was at Microfest 2001 in LA. A neat idea but it doesn't
sound like he's made much progress in the past 4 years. Although
if he brought some phones he had more hardware than last time.

> Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches
>
> A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a
> conference you should book him. The subject was this crazily
> ambitious notation scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the
> octave and accidentals to bring it up to 205. He also has a
> keyboard to play them all across several octaves, along with
> supporting software, and he's planning to sell it.

What did it look like?

> So watch out. He says he's been on tuning-math before.

And other lists, I think. I certainly remember corresponding
with him.

> His websites are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and www.h-pi.com
> if you want to check it out.

The former gives me a 404 and the latter a prompt for some sort
of password.

> recital by Elizabeth Smalt
>
> The notes don't say who did the vocals here. The highlights
> were superb performances of music by Harry Partch: some Li Po
> songs and By The Rivers of Babylon. Bob Gilmore used an
> inauthentic DX7II in place of the chromelodeon for the latter
> piece. About the only decent melody in the festival. Maybe
> it's because I'm more familiar with it, but I'm not that
> familiar, and it gave the impression that he was streets ahead
> of everybody else here as a microtonal composer.

To be fair, I think he was streets ahead of a lot of people
as a composer. Then again, calling oneself "microtonal" doesn't
mean much to me as a listener.

> Tragic, really, as the comparison is mostly with music was
> written in the 30 years since he died. They couldn't even
> manage to steal his ideas.

I suppose we wouldn't like it if they did. The modus operandi
of Western music seems to be to create your own style.

> Anyway, that was that. They're planning a UK MicroFest 2 in
> 2 years time. The call is apparently out, and there might be
> funding for ambitious projects to give fruit by that date.

Still sounds like progress to me!

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <gbreed@g...> wrote:
>
> > Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches
> >
> > A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a
conference
> > you should book him. The subject was this crazily ambitious
notation
> > scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the octave and accidentals to
> bring it
> > up to 205. He also has a keyboard to play them all across
several
> > octaves, along with supporting software, and he's planning to
sell it.
> > So watch out. He says he's been on tuning-math before. His
websites
> > are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and www.h-pi.com if you want to
check
> > it out.
>
> 205 was one of the edos we considered in the Ozan thread, dedicated
to
> precisely this question. It has a fifth a half a cent sharp it
> inherits from 41, and an excellent meantone fifth of 696.585 cents
as
> well. It's also not a bad 5-limit system, supporting amity tempering
> in fact.

205 is also your favorite ET representation of 1/4-comma meantone, as
I recall. I brought it up in this regard a while back, when we were
talking about using 62 consecutive notes (in the chain of fifths) of
1/4-comma meantone as an interesting sort of Vicentino-like adaptive
system.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

> > [Graham, re: Aaron Hunt]
> > His websites are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and
> > www.h-pi.com if you want to check it out.
>
> The former gives me a 404 and the latter a prompt for
> some sort of password.

I'm pretty sure Graham spelled "emancipation" incorrectly
in the former. I looked around and found this, which i like
upon first glance because one of my heroes is right at
the top:

http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfaah/emancipation/index.html

For the latter, if you go to

http://www.h-pi.com/

and click on the "MEGASTAFF" button on the left side,
it gives you the whole lowdown on Aaron's work.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

> > > [Graham, re: Aaron Hunt]
> > > His websites are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and
> > > www.h-pi.com if you want to check it out.
> >
> > The former gives me a 404 and the latter a prompt for
> > some sort of password.
>
> I'm pretty sure Graham spelled "emancipation" incorrectly
> in the former. I looked around and found this, which i like
> upon first glance because one of my heroes is right at
> the top:
>
> http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfaah/emancipation/index.html

Ah thanks. It's www.emancipation-of-pitch.org.

> For the latter, if you go to
>
> http://www.h-pi.com/
>
> and click on the "MEGASTAFF" button on the left side,
> it gives you the whole lowdown on Aaron's work.

Didn't get this last time I visited... hmm, mabye I mistyped
it or something. Thanks!

-Carl

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>His websites are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and www.h-pi.com
>>if you want to check it out.
> > > The former gives me a 404 and the latter a prompt for some sort
> of password.

Oh yes, spelling misteak. Try www.emancipation-of-pitch.com and change anything if it doesn't look like English words.

I'm off to the hospital now, so I'll reply to the rest later.

Graham

> >>His websites are www.enamcipation-of-pitch.com and www.h-pi.com
> >>if you want to check it out.
> >
> >
> > The former gives me a 404 and the latter a prompt for some sort
> > of password.
>
> Oh yes, spelling misteak. Try www.emancipation-of-pitch.com and
> change anything if it doesn't look like English words.

Sorry, I didn't look at it -- just cut and pasted.

> I'm off to the hospital now, so I'll reply to the rest later.

Good luck! (Let us know how it goes.)

-Carl

>
> DAY SESSION 1
>
> Composing for Quarter-Tone Alto Flute

quarter-tones...
>
>
> The Rosegarden Codicil: Rehearsal Strategies in 19-ET
>
something new...
>
>
> Some Microtonal Experiments
>
> Lecture by Patrick Ozzard-Low. Included some reasons for not
liking
> quartertones, which was good as there were a lot of quartertones
around.
told you Patrick was worth a listen.
>
>
> recital by William Raaijman
>
> Unaccompanied quartertone saxophone. Very intense performance,
this one.
quarter tones....
>
>
> Fine Tuning and Tonal Hybrids
>
> Lecture by Christopher Fox, in which he was outed as using 72-
equal. He
bandwaggoner... I have a bad feeling about 72, like its almost 144,
which leads to: if twelve tones are good then twelve times twelve
tones must be even better...
>
> recital by duo Contour
>
> The trumpets use string to pull the extra valve(s) now, instead of
a
> solenoid.
string and sealing wax... (!)
>
>
> Microtonal Procedures ... for Solo Recorder Player
>
> How to play quartertones on your recorder, from what I remember.
There
quartertones....
>
> Pocket Gamelan: rational for interactive performance using mobile
phones
>
> Greg Schiemer on microtonality for Java-based phones.
microtonal, how???
>
>
> Pythagorean Harmonies in Trompettes de Mort
>
> Margaret Lucy Wilkins, formerly of Huddersfield University, on one
of
dunno about this... sounds like funny quaretertones if the notation
was quartertones.
>
>
> Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches
>
> A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a
conference
> you should book him. The subject was this crazily ambitious
notation
> scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the octave and accidentals to
bring it
> up to 205.
205 doesn't sound like a universal notation to me...
>
>
> recital by Rare Bird
>
> Rachel Barnes and Natasha Powell doing quartertones with recorders,
quartertones...
>
>
> A Microtonal Manual for the Trumpet
>
> Donald Bousted explaining his book with examples from Stephen
Altoft.
> As Donald organized the festival, this is the bit that fits in with
the
> self-aggrandizing theories. Anyway, it was about playing
quartertones
> on a standard trumpet and changing tubing and adding valves to get
> 19-equal and those good old quartertones. I was quite impressed
with
> Stephen's virtuosity here, when all he did was play scales. It's a
> shame he doesn't have some better music to play.
He does, I've written it and he refuses to play it because DB and I
don't get on. Despite the fact that another trumpeter called in to
fill in for SA plus everyone at the concert where my piece was played
were /very very/ impressed with it. It's a sort of density 21.5 for
19EDO Trumpet, with echoes of the solo from unanswered question.

In fact the trumpeter was so impressed he made no less than four
takes of the whole piece to get it right...

I shan't say what the 1/4tone etudes for trumpet by DB are like, but
Stephen does like scales, and long passages of plain rhythms. Imagine
a soviet concrete-grad on a rainy september monday afternoon...

>
>
> recital by Elizabeth Smalt
>
They couldn't even manage to steal his ideas.

Good ol' Partch. And it's all old music now. And not quartertones..ah!
>
>
> Microtonality: my part in its downfall
>
> Lecture by Bob Gilmore, a history of the microtonal movement. For
the
> record, I think Helmholtz, Ellis and Bosanquet would count as 19th
> Century microtonalists.
Perhaps we could have a bit more on this. Like why the odd title...
>
>
> Wild Dog 1
>
> An installation with music, video and tents. A nice end to the
festival
> so long as you didn't take it too seriously

Hope there wasn't that video item with the camera going round and
round on a slowly changing scene... I'm sorry but I nearly laughed.

so let's add up:

six lots of quartertones, two lots of 19EDO. One lot of 72EDO. One of
Harmonic series, possibly. No mention of 30 or 32 EDO. And a book on
1/4tones! And a lecture on

doesn't sound very microtonal to me, not given the variety on this
list. And my personal beef: how does a composer have a strategy for
choosing from the infinite resources of microtonality. Where do they
begin? They could start with Monzo's site, which ought to be given
some commerical support by an online publisher.

To trolls and flamers: this is all IMHO. Everyone else could say that
Microfest 1 was wonderful. That's fine too...

Mark

Hi Mark,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "microtonalist" <mark@e...> wrote:

> And my personal beef: how does a composer have a strategy
> for choosing from the infinite resources of microtonality.
> Where do they begin? They could start with Monzo's site,
> which ought to be given some commerical support by an
> online publisher.

Wouldn't that be nice ... thanks for the promotion.

Actually, my site now *is* part of a commercial operation.
We (Tonalsoft) are committed to being an "online publisher"
ourself (ourselves?), and making our website *the* place
to go for online info about tuning.

It's unfortunate that this required me to reformat the
webpages i already had online, because now a *lot* of
links to webpages and mp3's have been temporarily
eliminated or are still there but broken, and the only
way to find most of my longer essays (which are still
online at Sonic Arts) is to do a Google search.

I apologize for this, and it's going to take quite
some time to fix it all, because right now my priority
is on the software and not on the website.

However, i do want to point out that we plan to have
regular updates to the website in the form of three
online columns:

* the "Pitch Bend" - written by Tonalsoft co-founder
Chris Wittmann, about technical stuff like MIDI and
Csound

* the "Microbeat" - written so far by Jonathan Glasier,
about news / events / gossip in the microtonal community
and experimental music in general

* "inTune" - written by me, about music-theory, tuning
theory, and historical stuff.

As i gradually convert my longer essays to the new
website format, they'll be appearing in "inTune".

The idea is that you'll be able to find new stuff
on our website on a weekly basis, kind of like a blog.
But Chris and i are both really deeply into writing
the software now, and Jonathan hasn't kept the
Microbeat on a regular schedule either ... if anyone
else out there is serious about writing a Microbeat
every week, by all means please let me know.

We're also interested in publishing contributions from
"outsiders" for the Pitch Bend and for inTune, if
anyone's interested. Just send me plain text, graphics,
and mp3's and i'll make it into a webpage.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

Carl Lumma wrote:

> He was at Microfest 2001 in LA. A neat idea but it doesn't
> sound like he's made much progress in the past 4 years. Although
> if he brought some phones he had more hardware than last time.

There were some performances as well, I forgot to mention them. At the Wild Dog. They didn't have the rhythmic or timbral interest I'd expect for gamelan, but they were okay. For one, four people had a phone each and when they started off they'd spin them round on pieces of string. The idea I take it is that you get the phase shifting effects of installation JI without going to the trouble of walking around. It'll be a lot more impressive with a hundred odd phones.

>>Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches
>>
>>A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a
>>conference you should book him. The subject was this crazily
>>ambitious notation scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the
>>octave and accidentals to bring it up to 205. He also has a
>>keyboard to play them all across several octaves, along with
>>supporting software, and he's planning to sell it.
> > What did it look like?

The keyboard? The notation? The software.

The notation must be on the website. It looks like a normal staff but with lighter lines for all the extra notes. Normal accidental symbols do the very small pitch changes.

The keyboard's a load of switches in a big grid. Groups of 5 keys in a column are colored the same, so the effect is of a Bosanquet keyboard. If you like you can tune to 41-Pythagorean and lose some of the precision. The final version will be in a proper case with key tops instead of the bare switches. The one he brought was very electronics-chic. You can plug it into any GM synth, so it presumably sends pitch bends. I didn't get a chance to play it because I was detained a bit after his talk, and so by the time I got to the back he was already taking the keyboard apart. The octave span is roughly (maybe exactly, he tends to research that sort of thing) the same as for a piano.

The software looked pretty good, with a GUI. You can set up any scale you want, and tune individual notes by hand. No mention of what platform(s) it supports.

> To be fair, I think he was streets ahead of a lot of people
> as a composer. Then again, calling oneself "microtonal" doesn't
> mean much to me as a listener.

It doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you write microtonal music. The thing about the Partch is that he actually gave the impression that he felt at home in his tuning. With the other composers (in a broad generalization) it was more of an exotic holiday. Now, it may be the performers weren't so familiar with it as well.

>>Tragic, really, as the comparison is mostly with music was
>>written in the 30 years since he died. They couldn't even
>>manage to steal his ideas.
> > I suppose we wouldn't like it if they did. The modus operandi
> of Western music seems to be to create your own style.

Of contemporary classical music, maybe, although a lot of it still ends up sounding the same. It's normal for rock bands to start out copying what they like, and even carry on that way.

>>Anyway, that was that. They're planning a UK MicroFest 2 in
>>2 years time. The call is apparently out, and there might be
>>funding for ambitious projects to give fruit by that date.
> > Still sounds like progress to me!

Oh, I think so. I'm trying to keep out of the politics. It would be nice to see people outside the academic/classical community next time.

Graham

microtonalist wrote:

>>Lecture by Christopher Fox, in which he was outed as using 72-
> > equal. He > bandwaggoner... I have a bad feeling about 72, like its almost 144, > which leads to: if twelve tones are good then twelve times twelve > tones must be even better...

How is he a bandwaggoner if he didn't know he was on a bandwagon until some yahoo in the audience pointed it out? That's a lousy reason for not liking a tuning as well.

>>Greg Schiemer on microtonality for Java-based phones. > > microtonal, how???

Wilson dekanies. Produced by writing sine waves direct to audio, I think he said. The MIDI support is badly broken and he managed to crash a phone using it.

>>Margaret Lucy Wilkins, formerly of Huddersfield University, on one > > of > dunno about this... sounds like funny quaretertones if the notation > was quartertones.

The logic behind it definitely wasn't quartertonal, but Finale only had quartertone accidentals. What actually came out would depend on how clear the harmony is, and how involved she was with the performance. But it made musical sense, so it's petty to quibble with the theory.

> 205 doesn't sound like a universal notation to me...

It's based on a JND of 3 cents. Any pitch is indistinguishable from one that can be notated in most cases.

>>Stephen's virtuosity here, when all he did was play scales. It's a >>shame he doesn't have some better music to play.
> > He does, I've written it and he refuses to play it because DB and I > don't get on. Despite the fact that another trumpeter called in to > fill in for SA plus everyone at the concert where my piece was played > were /very very/ impressed with it. It's a sort of density 21.5 for > 19EDO Trumpet, with echoes of the solo from unanswered question.

Well, that really is a shame. I liked those MIDI files you sent, even if they come under the "tuneless contemporary classical" banner. Did you make a recording?

> In fact the trumpeter was so impressed he made no less than four > takes of the whole piece to get it right...
> > I shan't say what the 1/4tone etudes for trumpet by DB are like, but > Stephen does like scales, and long passages of plain rhythms. Imagine > a soviet concrete-grad on a rainy september monday afternoon...

Unfortunately, that sounds all too familiar :(

>>Microtonality: my part in its downfall
>>
>>Lecture by Bob Gilmore, a history of the microtonal movement. For > > the > >>record, I think Helmholtz, Ellis and Bosanquet would count as 19th >>Century microtonalists.
> > Perhaps we could have a bit more on this. Like why the odd title...

The title is an allusion to Spike Milligan, whom Bob claims not to even like much. It doesn't mean anything other than a wacky title for a history talk. It was a good talk, covering 20th Century music from a microtonal perspective. Included a discussion of the term "microtonal", how strange it is to call yourself a "microtonalist" (that means you!) and how you never hear of "microtonalism". I mentioned those three names because he said there was no microtonality in the 19th Century, but I didn't say anything at the time because none of them are significant composers (are they?) and it would have seemed like nit picking. Let's keep nit picking on the Internet where it belongs.

> Hope there wasn't that video item with the camera going round and > round on a slowly changing scene... I'm sorry but I nearly laughed.

They had that kind of thing. Have you seen the Japanese version of The Ring? The film for one of Donald's pieces (not a Wild Dog one) was eerily familiar. If you don't hear from me after the end of the week, you'll know why :-O

> so let's add up:
> > six lots of quartertones, two lots of 19EDO. One lot of 72EDO. One of > Harmonic series, possibly. No mention of 30 or 32 EDO. And a book on > 1/4tones! And a lecture on There were more than two lots of 19. But yes, 19 and 24 did dominate it.

> doesn't sound very microtonal to me, not given the variety on this > list. And my personal beef: how does a composer have a strategy for > choosing from the infinite resources of microtonality. Where do they > begin? They could start with Monzo's site, which ought to be given > some commerical support by an online publisher. There was a concentration on British and other Northern European performers. I think that's quite reasonable for a UK MicroFest. The American scene seems to have a lot more variety, and no doubt their MicroFests reflect this. These lists are very diverse, and generally electronic or American. Who's going to cross the Atlantic for a performance with only 10 paying audience members? At least some quartertonalists were exposed to more diverse ideas.

> To trolls and flamers: this is all IMHO. Everyone else could say that > Microfest 1 was wonderful. That's fine too...

Opinions are fine. I think it was wonderful to meet people, whatever the actual music was like (and I was probably too tired to fully appreciate it anyway). It's also a shame that you weren't there, and neither were some British microtonalists I've met before (Charles, James, t'other James and Robert).

Graham

p.s. It went okay at the hospital. I have a removable plaster now, and I can leave the country whenever I like.

> > He was at Microfest 2001 in LA. A neat idea but it doesn't
> > sound like he's made much progress in the past 4 years. Although
> > if he brought some phones he had more hardware than last time.
>
> There were some performances as well, I forgot to mention them.
> At the Wild Dog. They didn't have the rhythmic or timbral
> interest I'd expect for gamelan, but they were okay. For one,
> four people had a phone each and when they started off they'd
> spin them round on pieces of string. The idea I take it is that
> you get the phase shifting effects of installation JI without
> going to the trouble of walking around. It'll be a lot more
> impressive with a hundred odd phones.

Sounds interesting.

> >>Megastaff: A Notation for all Possible Pitches
> >>
> >>A very good presentation by Aaron Hunt. If you're running a
> >>conference you should book him. The subject was this crazily
> >>ambitious notation scheme with 41 nominal pitches to the
> >>octave and accidentals to bring it up to 205. He also has a
> >>keyboard to play them all across several octaves, along with
> >>supporting software, and he's planning to sell it.
> >
> > What did it look like?
>
> The keyboard? The notation? The software.

The keyboard.

> The notation must be on the website. It looks like a normal
> staff but with lighter lines for all the extra notes. Normal
> accidental symbols do the very small pitch changes.

I also saw some microtonal accidentals on his site.

> The keyboard's a load of switches in a big grid. Groups of
> 5 keys in a column are colored the same, so the effect is of
> a Bosanquet keyboard.
> If you like you can tune to 41-Pythagorean and lose some of
> the precision. The final version will be in a proper case
> with key tops instead of the bare switches. The one he
> brought was very electronics-chic. You can plug it into
> any GM synth, so it presumably sends pitch bends. I didn't
> get a chance to play it because I was detained a bit after
> his talk, and so by the time I got to the back he was already
> taking the keyboard apart. The octave span is roughly (maybe
> exactly, he tends to research that sort of thing) the same as
> for a piano.

Sounds promising. I hope he puts pictures up on his website.
Which I just noticed has a very comprehensive timeline of
extended keyboards (and guitars).

> The software looked pretty good, with a GUI. You can set up
> any scale you want, and tune individual notes by hand. No
> mention of what platform(s) it supports.

Hrm. I download two pieces of freeware from his website, but
I don't think this was one of them.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "wallyesterpaulrus"
<wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:

> 205 is also your favorite ET representation of 1/4-comma meantone, as
> I recall.

It's a denominator of a convergent to log2(5)/4, and it is accurate
enough that the circle of pure major thirds can reasonably be said to
close after 205, as the difference is less than a cent. I suppose my
actual favorite as a 1/4-comma meantone et is 31, which is an
excellent practical system.

I brought it up in this regard a while back, when we were
> talking about using 62 consecutive notes (in the chain of fifths) of
> 1/4-comma meantone as an interesting sort of Vicentino-like adaptive
> system.

I had a discussion with Monz about it too. I wonder what Ozan thinks
of it?

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>The notation must be on the website. It looks like a normal
>>staff but with lighter lines for all the extra notes. Normal
>>accidental symbols do the very small pitch changes.
> > I also saw some microtonal accidentals on his site.

His presentation included a quick review of existing notation systems, and a slide with the sagittal accidentals. Maybe some of that's on the site as well.

> Sounds promising. I hope he puts pictures up on his website.
> Which I just noticed has a very comprehensive timeline of
> extended keyboards (and guitars).

Some of that was in the talk as well, but not all as I don't remember guitars.

Now, here's a message from Donald (the numeric date is December 31st, and the event itself is planned for two years' time):

"""
> Regarding UKM2, proposals can be accepted until 31.12.05. A proposal should include a short statement, biographies and full costs and, if accepted, will form the basis, with others, of funding applications. Assuming there is at least some success here, there will be a Call nearer the time for papers/demonstrations on the basis of acceptance equals free entry, which was the case with UKM1.
"""

Graham

The difference between 5/4 and the 205 major third is practically null. The circle can close on itself with a fifth of 696.585, which should be the default generator for diatonic scales IMO. However, the 702.439 cent fifth does not complete the cycle as in 193-EQ. Granted, the 205 major third is more accurate in comparison, and its pure fifth should only be required as a stepping-stone for well-temperaments. In that case, the system is attractive. I wonder if you can produce a wholesome MOS from this as I did from 159-tET, Gene?

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Ward Smith
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 20 Ekim 2005 Perşembe 8:05
Subject: [tuning] Re: UK MicroFest report

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "wallyesterpaulrus"
<wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:

> 205 is also your favorite ET representation of 1/4-comma meantone, as
> I recall.

It's a denominator of a convergent to log2(5)/4, and it is accurate
enough that the circle of pure major thirds can reasonably be said to
close after 205, as the difference is less than a cent. I suppose my
actual favorite as a 1/4-comma meantone et is 31, which is an
excellent practical system.

I brought it up in this regard a while back, when we were
> talking about using 62 consecutive notes (in the chain of fifths) of
> 1/4-comma meantone as an interesting sort of Vicentino-like adaptive
> system.

I had a discussion with Monz about it too. I wonder what Ozan thinks
of it?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@s...> wrote:
>
> The difference between 5/4 and the 205 major third is practically
null. The circle can close on itself with a fifth of 696.585, which
should be the default generator for diatonic scales IMO. However, the
702.439 cent fifth does not complete the cycle as in 193-EQ. Granted,
the 205 major third is more accurate in comparison, and its pure fifth
should only be required as a stepping-stone for well-temperaments. In
that case, the system is attractive. I wonder if you can produce a
wholesome MOS from this as I did from 159-tET, Gene?

The trouble with asking me that is that I don't know why you like the
79 out of 159 MOS. It makes perfect sense to like 159 itself, however.

I have told you, non-electronic musical instruments have far greater limits as to how precise an implementation can be. Picture the system on my Qanun, see how cramped the mandals are, and how no more can be fitted? My instrument-maker worked wonders and I have labored for days with a sore palm on the accursed primitive pegs to tune the 78 strings to the right frequencies. But behold! The renown Turkish Qanun virtuoso Ruhi Ayangil - although cursing and swearing for the toil caused by the extra latches - celebrated my efforts wholeheartedly a few days ago when he came to visit. That was the price to pay for greater accuracy of pitch. But he was eventually highly pleased with the instrument! 79 MOS 159-tET was the practical limit that scored a grand success. To my knowledge, no other traditional fixed-tuning instrument in the world exists yielding such an unmatched detail of musical expression. The sounds that resonate from my Qanun are simply delightful, and you can probably play any genre, any music in the world with it.

So, the issue simply is: 159 tones are impossible to implement on any instrument whose accuracy and stability of pitch wavers around 3-4 cents. Since most instruments are hampered thus, we need just the right amount of tones ordered in just the right manner for consistent transpositions. Now I wonder if some similar MOS can be created with fewer tones from some other monster edo.

Cordially,
Ozan

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Ward Smith
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 21 Ekim 2005 Cuma 22:21
Subject: [tuning] Re: UK MicroFest report

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@s...> wrote:
>
> The difference between 5/4 and the 205 major third is practically
null. The circle can close on itself with a fifth of 696.585, which
should be the default generator for diatonic scales IMO. However, the
702.439 cent fifth does not complete the cycle as in 193-EQ. Granted,
the 205 major third is more accurate in comparison, and its pure fifth
should only be required as a stepping-stone for well-temperaments. In
that case, the system is attractive. I wonder if you can produce a
wholesome MOS from this as I did from 159-tET, Gene?

The trouble with asking me that is that I don't know why you like the
79 out of 159 MOS. It makes perfect sense to like 159 itself, however.