Michael and Bach

Hi Michael,

JS Bach composed out of his head, not at a keyboard. He often may have
chosen a key AFTER the inspiration of a melody. Although a piece was written in C
major, it could only be transposed to C# major if the counterpoint of the
already written composition worked within a more Pythagorean framework than a
meantone framework.

Basically, the transposition gave new life and expression in the C# major key.

best, Johnny

In a message dated 10/6/2005 3:56:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tuning@yahoogroups.com writes:
His mode of composing in Cmaj and then shifting
the piece to C#maj needed a temperament that was able to cope with
this shift, without him thinking about C#maj tone relationships.
Michael

<JS Bach composed out of his head, not at a keyboard.
He often may have chosen a key AFTER the inspiration
of a melody.>

Huh? The man composed by writing figured bass below
empty staves, and then filled the void. The melody was
definitively second. This Cmaj fugue was not written
out of his head, it was constructed harmonically, and
then filled with melody and counterpoint. And every
decent Jazz musician today would work the same way.
The shift from Cmaj to C#maj was just a trick which
the temperament allowed. Which brings us back to the
temperament question.
Michael

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> <JS Bach composed out of his head, not at a keyboard.
> He often may have chosen a key AFTER the inspiration
> of a melody.>
>
> Huh? The man composed by writing figured bass below
> empty staves, and then filled the void. The melody was
> definitively second.

Er, fugues are subject- and countersubject-based, which
is to say melody-first. Meanwhile, the appearance of
folk melodies in Bach's chamber music suggest that melody
may not have been second there either.

-Carl

On Thursday 06 October 2005 3:20 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> > <JS Bach composed out of his head, not at a keyboard.
> > He often may have chosen a key AFTER the inspiration
> > of a melody.>
> >
> > Huh? The man composed by writing figured bass below
> > empty staves, and then filled the void. The melody was
> > definitively second.
>
> Er, fugues are subject- and countersubject-based, which
> is to say melody-first. Meanwhile, the appearance of
> folk melodies in Bach's chamber music suggest that melody
> may not have been second there either.

You're both correct--Bach was capable, as most decent musicians are, of
thinking both horizontally and vertically.

-Aaron.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael Zapf <zapfzapfzapf@y...> wrote:
>
>
> <JS Bach composed out of his head, not at a keyboard.
> He often may have chosen a key AFTER the inspiration
> of a melody.>
>
> Huh? The man composed by writing figured bass below
> empty staves, and then filled the void. The melody was
> definitively second. This Cmaj fugue was not written
> out of his head, it was constructed harmonically, and
> then filled with melody and counterpoint. And every
> decent Jazz musician today would work the same way.
> The shift from Cmaj to C#maj was just a trick which
> the temperament allowed. Which brings us back to the
> temperament question.
> Michael
>

What's the source for this (figured bass first, counterpoint
afterwards)? It makes more sense for some compositions than others.

Who knows what the real *initial* inspiration of a fugue was or where
it came from - but the main question is the development of that
inspiration in different forms of counterpoint. And it makes it a lot
easier to write instrumental counterpoint if you have first an idea of
where the harmony is going.

~~~T~~~