AW.: Re : F in G7 as 21/16 rather than 4/3...

In einer Nachricht vom 11/11/99 8:50:23 AM (MEZ) Mitteleurop�ische
Zeitschreibt bval@iil.intel.com:

<<
How about the Mormon Tabernacil Choir? I'm sure you are correct with
the settings you site, and I am not against septimal intervals, but
are (and others in this thread) you saying that 7/4 (21/16) is ALWAYS
the right choice for the dominant seventh?

Bob Valentine >>

While this thread is fairly septimal, this list has been of two minds about
the dominant seventh. In blues, where seventh chords can be built over every
degree, the seventh in the chord is functionally consonant, suggesting a 7/4.
But in classical, functional tonality, the dominant seventh chord is a
dissonance to be resolved, and using 16/9 as the seventh fits the bill for
both smooth voice leading (which is something different to jazz "voicing")
and the required dissonance. The augmented sixth chord, on the other hand,
can be very close to a 7/4 in meantone, the tuning environment in which the
classical tonal grew up.

DJW

In einer Nachricht vom 11/11/99 5:09:19 PM (MEZ) Mitteleurop�ische
Zeitschreibt johnlink@con2.com:

<< My view is that the 7/4 seventh is exactly the one used by good string
quartets in the dominant 7th chord leading to the tonic in e.g., Mozart's
music.
>>

I think that you'll be disappointed if you look for 7/4 sevenths in real
performances. Try one of the analysis programs available out there --
spectrogram or the (very impressive) PRAAT package.

<<
Let's remember that meantone tuning is a possible tuning for keyboards, but
that singers and unfretted strings have never been constrained by such
tuning, except when accompanied by meantone instruments. Meantone tuning,
like any system of fixed tuning, can never be the standard of intonation.
>>

Meantone tunings were the dominant keyboard tunings in the common practice
tonal era, a time when a capella repertoire was the exception rather than the
rule. Singers would have been highly unlikely to sing in dissonace with the
continuo instruments, i.e. organs -- mostly in 1/6 comma -- and other
keyboards -- mostly in 1/4 comma. This is an old theme on the list (and one
on which Paul Erlich actually agree) -- baroque and classical tonal music
_largely_ follows the resources and restrictions of the meantone gamut.
There are important exceptions, but those in the direction of just intonation
are to be found in the choral repertoire prior to this era, and in musics
after and outside of the European common practice period.

Don't get me wrong. I'm an enthusiast for JI, but the evidence for JI in
common practice repertoire is extremely weak.