The memory of a tuning

<Out of interest, how can we know that? How can we
remember what we have forgotten?
Justin>

Justin,
this little sentence triggered a lot of thoughts in my
brain. As some of you know, I have been working myself
into the maqam world by learning how to play the
Turkish ney, and the result has been that these maqams
have changed my emotional life - they haunt me at
night in my sleep because my brain is working on them
like on a new language, and they allow me to not only
express new feelings, but also HAVE new feelings. In
my frequent conversations with Turks living in
Germany, I will tell them that I know they feel
differently, because if they didn't they wouldn't have
the music they have, but as I know their music now (a
little) I know about the emotional difference. And
that includes PAST emotions, for me this is like
having been introduced to the emotions of Turks living
in the 18th century or earlier. Of course you need
order, and you have autopoietic evolution, and thus
you never know how the past really felt, but that is a
hermeneutic problem which applies to all communication
systems. The memory is in the current meaning, no
communication ever "forgets".
Michael

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Dear Michael, through a single Ney, one can hear the lamentation of a thousand ancient souls.

Cordially,
Ozan
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Zapf
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 04 Ekim 2005 Salı 9:44
Subject: [tuning] The memory of a tuning

<Out of interest, how can we know that? How can we
remember what we have forgotten?
Justin>

Justin,
this little sentence triggered a lot of thoughts in my
brain. As some of you know, I have been working myself
into the maqam world by learning how to play the
Turkish ney, and the result has been that these maqams
have changed my emotional life - they haunt me at
night in my sleep because my brain is working on them
like on a new language, and they allow me to not only
express new feelings, but also HAVE new feelings. In
my frequent conversations with Turks living in
Germany, I will tell them that I know they feel
differently, because if they didn't they wouldn't have
the music they have, but as I know their music now (a
little) I know about the emotional difference. And
that includes PAST emotions, for me this is like
having been introduced to the emotions of Turks living
in the 18th century or earlier. Of course you need
order, and you have autopoietic evolution, and thus
you never know how the past really felt, but that is a
hermeneutic problem which applies to all communication
systems. The memory is in the current meaning, no
communication ever "forgets".
Michael

Hi Michael
Actually my meaning was a little different. I meant
like this:

> Not a single work
> was lame, or worth
> forgetting about.

How would we know that? Surely only the ones remaining
are the ones which were woth remembering, so, all
those not worth remembering are forgotten, so how
would we know now if there were any not worth
remembering, as they would have been forgotten anyway
(and so not even appear to have existed)?

> Nobody in the 19th century, for example, wrote lame
> virtuoso music that
> was devoid of any depth, or even entertaining.

Same point. Maybe they did but is has not survived for
us to know about as it was not worth surviving.

But, I really enjoyed your response anyway. Good on
you. Keeo it up!
Best wishes
Justin.

--- Michael Zapf <zapfzapfzapf@yahoo.de> wrote:

>
> <Out of interest, how can we know that? How can we
> remember what we have forgotten?
> Justin>
>
> Justin,
> this little sentence triggered a lot of thoughts in
> my
> brain. As some of you know, I have been working
> myself
> into the maqam world by learning how to play the
> Turkish ney, and the result has been that these
> maqams
> have changed my emotional life - they haunt me at
> night in my sleep because my brain is working on
> them
> like on a new language, and they allow me to not
> only
> express new feelings, but also HAVE new feelings. In
> my frequent conversations with Turks living in
> Germany, I will tell them that I know they feel
> differently, because if they didn't they wouldn't
> have
> the music they have, but as I know their music now
> (a
> little) I know about the emotional difference. And
> that includes PAST emotions, for me this is like
> having been introduced to the emotions of Turks
> living
> in the 18th century or earlier. Of course you need
> order, and you have autopoietic evolution, and thus
> you never know how the past really felt, but that is
> a
> hermeneutic problem which applies to all
> communication
> systems. The memory is in the current meaning, no
> communication ever "forgets".
> Michael

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