[Fwd: [La_Monte_Young] DREAM HOUSE (La Monte Young)]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [La_Monte_Young] DREAM HOUSE (La Monte Young)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:19:01 +0200
From: Walter Cianciusi <cianciusi@mac.com>
Reply-To: La_Monte_Young@yahoogroups.com
To: <La_Monte_Young@yahoogroups.com>

DREAM HOUSE by Walter Cianciusi

I produced a Max/MSP (IRCAM) algorithm that allows a computer user to switch, in real time, through several La Monte Young's sine-tone compositions.
The user simply needs
1. to choose a composition from a menu;
2. to insert a base frequency;
3. to press a start button.
A series of virtual sinusoidal oscillators (perfectly in phase) will reproduce the chosen piece.
On the screen the user will find indications about the exact tuning ratios implied and about the frequencies generated by the machine starting from the chosen base frequency.

At the moment the algorithm includes the following 23 compositions:
Composition 1960 #7;
First Dream Of China;
Second Dream Of China;
Third Dream Of China;
Fourth Dream Of China;
Pre-Tortoise Dream Music;
The Obsidian Ocelot;
Freeman Commission;
Oldenburg Commission;
Scull Commission;
Drift Study 5 VIII 68;
Drift Study 31 I 69;
Drift Study 14 VII 73;
First Dream 1980;
Second Dream 1980;
Third Dream 1980;
Fourth Dream 1980;
The Opening Chord;
The Magic Chord;
The Magic Opening Chord;
The Romantic Symmetry;
The Base 9:7:4 Symmetry;
The Prime Time Twins.

The algorithm is Windows and Macintosh compatible, and you can download it for free from my website: http://homepage.mac.com/cianciusi/FileSharing15.html
On the downloaded folder you will also find a free Max/MSP Runtime 4.5 version to read the algorithm.

With your collaboration I could improve my work, add other compositions and let the algorithm conforms to your expectations.

Thank you very much for your attention.

-------------------------------------
Walter Cianciusi
Via Montello 80
67051 Avezzano (AQ)
ITALIA

www.waltercianciusi.com

info@waltercianciusi.com

"The piece is over when you are too exhausted to push any longer." - La Monte Young Yahoo! Groups Links

-- * David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [La_Monte_Young] DREAM HOUSE (La Monte Young)
> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:19:01 +0200
> From: Walter Cianciusi <cianciusi@m...>
> Reply-To: La_Monte_Young@yahoogroups.com
> To: <La_Monte_Young@yahoogroups.com>
>
> DREAM HOUSE by Walter Cianciusi
>
> I produced a Max/MSP (IRCAM) algorithm that allows a computer user to
> switch, in real time, through several La Monte Young's sine-tone
> compositions.
...

Thanks Walter! And Thanks David, for cross posting this!

I've been listening to it (and trying to ignore the occasional clicky
artifacts of the software synthesis).

So that's what it's all about! Wot fun.

This has been a boundary-teaser for definitions of JI for some time,
and now I finally get to hear it. I still can't tell whether I think
it ought to be called "perceptibly JI" or not, but I'm happy to
continue assuming so for now.

What I'd need to tell this is the ability to change the numbers
slightly and see if it changes the sound noticeably.

There are (at least) two different ways of looking at this stuff.

In the first way, the question of whether it is JI or not is
meaningless since each "piece" can be heard as a single note in an
unusual timbre.

In the second way, considering each piece as a chord, it's kind of
strange to call it JI since the _beating_ is what it's all about.
Precisely controlled beating, with the beats themselves in small whole
number ratios. I suppose it's a kind of "second-order" JI.

Wonderful!

One friend who listened to my tumbling dekany, complained that "It
doesn't go anywhere". I'll have to show him these. ;-)

It would be nice if Walter had provided each piece with a default base
frequency. It gets a little tedious having to figure out a suitable
one for every piece, just to get started. Didn't La Monte give any
guidance for these?

-- Dave Keenan

Dave Keenan wrote:

>It would be nice if Walter had provided each piece with a default base
>frequency. It gets a little tedious having to figure out a suitable
>one for every piece, just to get started. Didn't La Monte give any
>guidance for these?
> >
60 cycles. On a couple I brought that up a few octaves.

Also keep in mind that LMY's pieces are multiple speaker installations
in a large room.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Dave, as I understand it (primarily from Kyle Gann's writings), La Monte has been tuning to 60 Hz for many years (although it's possible that he uses 50 Hz in Europe). Some of the sine wave installations are actually based on 7.5 Hz (3 octaves below 60) where each sine oscillator tuned to a harmonic of the base pitch.

One thing that Gann doesn't discuss is how La Monte uses stereo. As an experiment, I made two Csound versions of "The Romantic Symmetry", one in mono and one in stereo (where I put "adjacent" pitches on opposite sides, fully panned) , and the stereo version sounded a lot better to me, but I don't have the sound system (or space to put it in) that La Monte has.

- Dave

Dave Keenan wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> >>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: [La_Monte_Young] DREAM HOUSE (La Monte Young)
>>Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:19:01 +0200
>>From: Walter Cianciusi <cianciusi@m...>
>>Reply-To: La_Monte_Young@yahoogroups.com
>>To: <La_Monte_Young@yahoogroups.com>
>>
>>DREAM HOUSE by Walter Cianciusi
>>
>>I produced a Max/MSP (IRCAM) algorithm that allows a computer user to >>switch, in real time, through several La Monte Young's sine-tone >>compositions.
> > ...
> > > Thanks Walter! And Thanks David, for cross posting this!
> > I've been listening to it (and trying to ignore the occasional clicky
> artifacts of the software synthesis).
> > So that's what it's all about! Wot fun.
> > This has been a boundary-teaser for definitions of JI for some time,
> and now I finally get to hear it. I still can't tell whether I think
> it ought to be called "perceptibly JI" or not, but I'm happy to
> continue assuming so for now.
> > What I'd need to tell this is the ability to change the numbers
> slightly and see if it changes the sound noticeably.
> > There are (at least) two different ways of looking at this stuff. > > In the first way, the question of whether it is JI or not is
> meaningless since each "piece" can be heard as a single note in an
> unusual timbre.
> > In the second way, considering each piece as a chord, it's kind of
> strange to call it JI since the _beating_ is what it's all about.
> Precisely controlled beating, with the beats themselves in small whole
> number ratios. I suppose it's a kind of "second-order" JI.
> > Wonderful!
> > One friend who listened to my tumbling dekany, complained that "It
> doesn't go anywhere". I'll have to show him these. ;-)
> > It would be nice if Walter had provided each piece with a default base
> frequency. It gets a little tedious having to figure out a suitable
> one for every piece, just to get started. Didn't La Monte give any
> guidance for these?
> > -- Dave Keenan

Dave Seidel wrote:

>Dave, as I understand it (primarily from Kyle Gann's writings), La Monte >has been tuning to 60 Hz for many years (although it's possible that he >uses 50 Hz in Europe). >
I think he does.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> Dave Keenan wrote:
>
> >It would be nice if Walter had provided each piece with a default base
> >frequency. It gets a little tedious having to figure out a suitable
> >one for every piece, just to get started. Didn't La Monte give any
> >guidance for these?
> >
> >
> 60 cycles. On a couple I brought that up a few octaves.

OK. So 60, 120 and 240 hertz would be the things to try first.

> Also keep in mind that LMY's pieces are multiple speaker installations
> in a large room.

Right. Are different sets of sine waves sent to different speakers?
Roughly how many speakers and how arranged?

It sounds like Walter didn't even do stereo.

-- Dave Keenan

Dave Keenan wrote:

>>Also keep in mind that LMY's pieces are multiple speaker installations
>>in a large room.
>> >>
>
>Right. Are different sets of sine waves sent to different speakers?
>Roughly how many speakers and how arranged?
>
In the current Dream House (the only one I know) there are 6 cabinets.
There are 4 in each corner of the room that are the size of really large, tall refrigerators
with 30" speakers in each. Two for 1/1, one for 7/4, one for 9/8. At the East end of the rooom,
on top of each of the huge cabs are the remaining two speakers, each (I think) has a crossover with
a tweeter. The remaining higher pitches are distributed between these speakers.

I don't think I'm discussing anything I wouldn't have told a Dream House visitor.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

There are no words that can describe the Dream House in a NYC heatwave
(like we are in now) -- i remember a summer about 4-5 years ago where the
space must have been 125 degrees -- and this was at night -- it makes the
experience all the more corporeal

P

___________________________________________
Paul Greenhaw
Music Specialist II
The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts
40 Lincoln Center Plaza
New York, NY 10023
(212) 870-1892
__________________________________________

David Beardsley <db@biink.com>
Sent by: tuning@yahoogroups.com
07/26/2005 10:43 PM
Please respond to tuning

To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
cc:
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: [Fwd: [La_Monte_Young] DREAM HOUSE (La Monte Young)]

Dave Keenan wrote:

>>Also keep in mind that LMY's pieces are multiple speaker installations
>>in a large room.
>>
>>
>
>Right. Are different sets of sine waves sent to different speakers?
>Roughly how many speakers and how arranged?
>
In the current Dream House (the only one I know) there are 6 cabinets.
There are 4 in each corner of the room that are the size of really
large, tall refrigerators
with 30" speakers in each. Two for 1/1, one for 7/4, one for 9/8. At the
East end of the rooom,
on top of each of the huge cabs are the remaining two speakers, each (I
think) has a crossover with
a tweeter. The remaining higher pitches are distributed between these
speakers.

I don't think I'm discussing anything I wouldn't have told a Dream House
visitor.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

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