Fw: [tuning] Re: Meantone Maquams

George, this is exactly the kind of deal I had in mind:

Hmmm, now that I've said that, what about two circles of 19? 38-ET would use the same Tartini accidentals as 31-ET. All of the pitches of 152-ET can be arrived at by increments up to +-2deg152, and there would be only 5 different choices of pitch adjustment: down-large, down-small, none, up-small, and up-large.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ozan Yarman
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 14 Haziran 2005 Salı 8:31
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Meantone Maquams

Here are some hints then. This is Rast:

F-(702)-C-(695)-G-(702)-D-(695)-A-(702)-E-(695)-B

An altered Rast would be:

Bb-(702)-F-(702)-C-(695)-G-(702)-D-(710)-A-(702)-E

This is Suz-i Dilara:

F-(702)-C-(710)-G-(702)-D-(710)-A-(702)-E-(710)-B

An altered Suz-i Dilara would be:

F-(702)-C-(710)-G-(702)-D-(695)-A-(702)-E-(710)-B

Ok, enough hints for now!

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Ward Smith
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 14 Haziran 2005 Salı 7:49
Subject: [tuning] Re: Meantone Maquams

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@y...> wrote:

> If the generator is 92deg159, then your best 4:5 is -15 generators
> along the chain, not +4. However, if you wanted to consider the
> tones separated by 19 generators as simply subtle variations of the
> same notated pitch, then a 19-ET notation (with no new microtonal
> symbols) would suffice. (But I think Ozan needs more than 19
> pitches/octave.)

The whole generator question is murky. The MOS in question has a
generator of 2deg159, but he wants to use it for both 92deg159 and
93deg159 as nearly as I can tell. How that works is unclear.

> > If you are
> > going to take a multiple of a meantone system, the claims of 152 and
> > 171 should be considered,
>
> Yes, and as I pointed out, I don't expect that 19 pitches +
> flexibility will be enough. Hmmm, now that I've said that, what
> about two circles of 19? 38-ET would use the same Tartini
> accidentals as 31-ET. All of the pitches of 152-ET can be arrived at
> by increments up to +-2deg152, and there would be only 5 different
> choices of pitch adjustment: down-large, down-small, none, up-small,
> and up-large.

That makes sense, but this whole question is hard to work on without a
better idea of what the target actually is. What would a list of
ideally tuned maqams be? If we had that, we could began to optimize.

> But those are alterations to a chain of nominals generated by the
> best fifth of 159. I think Ozan may want a notation that uses
> nominals generated by a 159-meantone fifth (one degree smaller),
> which would be something quite different. Gene, have you considered
> looking at this as a chain of semi-159-meantone-fifths (46deg159)?

Hey, we induct injera, godzilla/semaphore or semififhts into the maqam
business! No, I didn't consider it; I'm not clear on what the target
really is.

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--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@s...> wrote:
> George, this is exactly the kind of deal I had in mind:
> [GS:]
> Hmmm, now that I've said that, what about two circles of 19? 38-ET
would use the same Tartini accidentals as 31-ET. All of the pitches
of 152-ET can be arrived at by increments up to +-2deg152, and there
would be only 5 different choices of pitch adjustment: down-large,
down-small, none, up-small, and up-large.

Yes, I thought I was finally beginning to home in on what you were
looking for -- call it marketing savvy, if you like! ;-)

Now try this on for size. I quote from a previous message:

> [GS:]
> BTW, should you need some small arrows, there are already some
> Sagittal symbols for 1, 2, and 3 increments of 217-ET that could
be
> used in combination with the Tartini accidentals for this
purpose.
> Should you be interested, you can see them in our Sagittal paper:
> http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/Sagittal.pdf
> on page 16, Figure 9: the first 3 symbols in the row for 217 show
> upward-pointing arrows; the down-arrows would simply be
(vertical)
> mirror-images of these.
>
> [OY:]
> I was more inclined to expressing each pack of tones within a
certain region by a single accidental alone, whose meaning would
depend on the flow of the maqam that I would painstakingly explain in
minute detail.

Could this be done by placing the small arrows at the left side of
each staff -- a sort of "maqam signature" instead of a key
signature? Each maqam could have its own characteristic combination
of micro-arrows. (I don't know how well this would work, with only 7
staff-position-classes available, but it may be worth a thought.)

--George