melodic minor: ordered or unordered: scales vs. generalized rags

>>Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 09:43:14 EDT
>> From: Afmmjr@aol.com
>>Subject: Re: Re: ordered or unordered: scales vs. generalized rags
>>
>>In a message dated 5/24/2005 12:24:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>>chris@music.columbia.edu writes:
>>>Hi Chris,
>>>
>>>If you are in C major, you can have a chord with an A natural in it.For
>>>example, you might have a major IV chord (F A C). This is done all the
>>>time and
>>>has nothing to do with melody, nothing to do with direction.
>>
>>You're correct. But I'm not talking about C Major.
>>If an F Major chord appears in a C-Minor context, I'll argue that most
>>of
>>the time, it means something is happening directionally. I.e., that A
>>is going to lead to B. (Or you're hearing something exceptional).

>
>Sorry, Chris, I meant C minor. And yes, there can easily be a major IV
>with an FAC triad, if only for cadence purposes. best, Johnny
>

Exactly, but that's a situation which is about linearity above all. the F
"Major" arises only by the accident, that some voice is moving upwards
through melodic minor, through an A natural. the A is leading to B . . .
I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the time, an A-natural in c minor is
leading to B. . .yes, it may be harmonized in an F Major triad, but
that triad is leading to a G triad, and the A is leading to a B. . .it
does have to do with melody, and direction . . The only time an F Major
triad would appear would be for linear reasons . . that voices moving
through melodic minor happened to form a "modal mixture" triad.

There may be a few exceptions, but I'm willing to bet that before 1800,
certainly, they're exceedingly rare.

By the way, I am reminded of a particular Bach chorale, where there are
like 4 parallel Dominant 7ths (in 6/5 inversion) in a row. . .it sounds
like Debussy! really amazing . . and it's thanks to melodic minor.

BTW, Johnny, I enjoy your Bach CD very much. It's lovely.

CB

In a message dated 5/24/2005 10:19:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chris@music.columbia.edu writes:
I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the time, an A-natural in c minor is
leading to B.
First off, thanks for the kind comments on the AFMM Bach CD.

But back to the topic: if even 5% of the time there is a major IV chord in
minor without a direct melodic minor orientation, it would support my contention
that minor has 9 notes.

I believe this is the reasons all the colorful, chromatic works are based in
minor: there are more notes to work with on a regular basis.

all best, Johnny