Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning King Crimson: Confusion will be my epitaph

Sorry, one and all! Once again, I forgot to copy and paste the
original subject before pressing "Send".

I think I'll go to bed now ...

Yahya

-----Original Message-----
From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz
Sent: Tuesday 5 April 2005 18:56 pm
Subject: RE: [tuning] Digest Number 3467

Dave, Danny, Rich, Max and other KC enthusiasts,

With my university scholarship money, some of my first
"avant-garde" music purchases were King Crimson's first
two albums. I got them as non-commercial imports from
a guy who seemed to know what was worthwhile, and they've
remained firm favourites ever since - going on 40 years!
I still go around singing -
"The wall on which the prophets wrote
is cracking at the seams ...
...
Confusion will be my epitaph,
As I crawl a cracked and broken path ..."
from time to time (particularly after reading another
digest on tuning-math! ... :-) ) Great lyrics that stick in
the mind, and perfectly set.

Unfortunately, my supplier moved away, and so I never
did get to hear anything later by KC. But all this
discussion of "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" and "Beat" tells
me I'd better start looking again ... More Fripp! :-)

---

As to playing 12-et on a fretless - every classical string
player - eg violinists, cellists - is pretty good at it!
I've also had fun trying to play my pi-pa, held in guitar
position, finger-style ...

Regards,
Yahya

-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 06:44:57 -0400
From: Dave Seidel
Subject: Re: Re: King Crimson: Larks' Tongues in Aspic

Belew plays some fretless on the album Beat, I believe (e.g., the tune
Heartbeat).

A fretless commercially-made guitar that I've tried that I'd love to own
is the Godin Glissentar (11 nylon strings, all doubled except for the
lowest string).

- Dave

David Beardsley wrote:
> Yep. I know Belew had a fretless in the '80's but I don't remember
> what he used it for.
>
> One thing about fretless...I showed mine to a few guys that
> I work with that are hot sh*t guitar players. They could play 12tet
> very well in it!
>

________________________________________________________________________

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🔗oren jusefsohn <oren_j@hotmail.com>

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@hotmail.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@m...> wrote:
> As to playing 12-et on a fretless - every classical string
> player - eg violinists, cellists - is pretty good at it!

I'm a violist who put in some time in community orchestras and will
soon be playing in one or two again. I'm not a professional, but will
contribute anyway.

The music we've played is indeed nominally 12t-ET. However, we as an
aggregate group (strings, winds, etc.) tended to aim for beatless
chords. Or, should I say, the music director tended to aim for
beatless chords, which is not a concern of strict 12tET. If he
managed to spot beating anywhere, he would stop everyone, then choose
the suspected offending instruments to play their respective notes in
the specified chord, then have the "out of tune" player adjust his/her
intonation. Once, the principal oboe-ist was late, so he had us tune
to a piano. It threw everybody's intonation off, so when the oboist
finally arrived, he had us re-tune to the oboe. I am not trying to
revive the "string players really play in JI" argument - just
reporting how things are done in our community orchestra.

If I had to play with a 12tET guitarist or electric keys player, I'd
tune my viola to 12tET instead of beatless 5ths (the classical way).
Acoustic pianos would be different because they tend to be stretch-tuned.

In the solo piece that I'm practicing, I use my open strings a lot, so
I'm probably not playing strict 12tET solo, as I tune them the
classical way playing solo.

Paolo

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@melbpc.org.au>

Hi all,

I'm sorry if it was my witterings that drove Oren away.
I'll try to stay on topic in future; promise! :-) Tho it's
very hard to do, since so many connections always invite
exploration ...

Yahya

-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:31:24 +0000
From: "oren jusefsohn"
Subject: RE: King Crimson: Confusion will be my epitaph

Take me out of your list!!!

Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________

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🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@melbpc.org.au>

Paolo,

Thanks for the feedback! As a student, I had a running battle with
my keyboard teacher over the "string players really play in JI" notion.
I contended that string players really play purer intervals whenever
the context permits - for example, in extended solo or section passages
- while she insisted they would only ever play 12-tET, because that's
how they were trained. I believed then - and still do - that she was
hearing only what she expected to hear, not what her ears told her ...

I'm fascinated by the way an ensemble of musicians goes about the
business of tuning. It seems that every kind of ensemble - from
classical orchestra to garage band - has its own methods, as well as
considerable variation between groups of a similar kind. Rather like
the apocryphal Chinaman, who, on hearing his first sysmphony orchestra,
was asked which piece he enjoyed best, and replied "I like the one they
played before the man started waving his stick" ...

Regards,
Yahya

-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 17:53:19 -0000
From: "paolovalladolid"
Subject: Re: King Crimson: Confusion will be my epitaph

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@m...> wrote:
> As to playing 12-et on a fretless - every classical string
> player - eg violinists, cellists - is pretty good at it!

I'm a violist who put in some time in community orchestras and will
soon be playing in one or two again. I'm not a professional, but will
contribute anyway.

In the solo piece that I'm practicing, I use my open strings a lot, so
I'm probably not playing strict 12tET solo, as I tune them the
classical way playing solo.

Paolo

________________________________________________________________________

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Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 6/4/05

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@m...> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback! As a student, I had a running battle with
> my keyboard teacher over the "string players really play in JI" notion.
> I contended that string players really play purer intervals whenever
> the context permits - for example, in extended solo or section passages
> - while she insisted they would only ever play 12-tET, because that's
> how they were trained. I believed then - and still do - that she was
> hearing only what she expected to hear, not what her ears told her

I think the key phrase is "keyboard teacher", not violinist or choir
director.