King Crimson: Larks' Tongues in Aspic

I swear I have never heard this album before. This is an old-school hardcore art-rock band I need to get into a lot more. Robert Fripp's name also came up in a discussion on MMM just earlier.

Right now I'm listening to the beginning of this album, released in 1973. It starts with some synth that is *clearly* not 12-EDO. Since I'm listening to it on Yahoo! Music (formerly LAUNCHCast), I can't rewind the track and play it over to try and figure out the tuning - so is anyone familiar with this one?

And now the violin solo starts, so I'm listening to anything xenharmonic that might show up.

~Danny~

"Danny Wier" <dawiertx@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> Right now I'm listening to the beginning of this album, released in 1973. It
> starts with some synth that is *clearly* not 12-EDO.

The first track on Larks' Tongues In Aspic is the 13:36 "Larks' Tongues
In Aspic Part I", and it begins with what sounds to me like a kalimba
solo. Which I don't think is 12-EDO, but I suspect that's not what
you're talking about... is it?

> And now the violin solo starts,

Yeah, there's a violin solo starting around 7:45. There's a lot
before that and after the kalimba, though. If any of it is non 12-EDO
synth it's not obvious to me, but I don't have the best trained ears.

- Rich Holmes

I don't believe there's any synth at all on that record (the only electronics they used in that era were Mellotrons with standard 12-EDO tuning). There are probably some untempered sounds from other (acoustic) noise making devices, and possibly some use of taped sound (ala musique concrete), and when they got into improv, the violin in particular would go off the map a bit. But as far as I know, KC has never deliberately used a non-12-EDO tuning. Fripp is well known for having developed a new guitar tuning, but that was years after this record was made, and it still uses 12-EDO - the difference is in the string-to-string intervals, which he bases on fifths rather than the standard fourths.

- Dave

Rich Holmes wrote:
> "Danny Wier" <dawiertx@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> > >>Right now I'm listening to the beginning of this album, released in 1973. It >>starts with some synth that is *clearly* not 12-EDO.
> > > The first track on Larks' Tongues In Aspic is the 13:36 "Larks' Tongues
> In Aspic Part I", and it begins with what sounds to me like a kalimba
> solo. Which I don't think is 12-EDO, but I suspect that's not what
> you're talking about... is it?
> > >>And now the violin solo starts, > > > Yeah, there's a violin solo starting around 7:45. There's a lot
> before that and after the kalimba, though. If any of it is non 12-EDO
> synth it's not obvious to me, but I don't have the best trained ears.
> > - Rich Holmes
> > > > You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
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Rich Holmes wrote:

> The first track on Larks' Tongues In Aspic is the 13:36 "Larks' Tongues
> In Aspic Part I", and it begins with what sounds to me like a kalimba
> solo. Which I don't think is 12-EDO, but I suspect that's not what
> you're talking about... is it?

That's it - I was going to say marimba instead of kalimba. I have to check on that, but I think it was synth and not a real thumb piano.

~Danny~

Danny Wier wrote:

>Rich Holmes wrote:
>
> >
>>The first track on Larks' Tongues In Aspic is the 13:36 "Larks' Tongues
>>In Aspic Part I", and it begins with what sounds to me like a kalimba
>>solo. Which I don't think is 12-EDO, but I suspect that's not what
>>you're talking about... is it?
>> >>
>
>That's it - I was going to say marimba instead of kalimba. I have to check >on that, but I think it was synth and not a real thumb piano.
>
>~Danny~ >
Synths just didn't sound THAT good back then!

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Hi!

In a way, there's much of microtonal work in modern rock bands (string
bending, fretless instruments.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Wier" <dawiertx@s...> wrote:
> Rich Holmes wrote:
>
> > The first track on Larks' Tongues In Aspic is the 13:36 "Larks'
Tongues
> > In Aspic Part I", and it begins with what sounds to me like a
kalimba
> > solo. Which I don't think is 12-EDO, but I suspect that's not what
> > you're talking about... is it?
>
> That's it - I was going to say marimba instead of kalimba. I have to
check
> on that, but I think it was synth and not a real thumb piano.
>
> ~Danny~

I love much of KC's stuff. This messages made me remember of "Matte
Kudasai. On the version performed live in Buenos Aires (BBoom - double
CD), Tony Levin is playing fretless bass, and Fripp uses a fretless
(?) guitar, whose sound reminds me of a sea-gull's voice (my humble
english lacks of a better word!). Quite microtonal.

The bass lines (especially the one going up to the ninth on F#m) sound
quite non-12 et for me :)

Maximiliano G. Miranda Zanetti wrote:

>I love much of KC's stuff. This messages made me remember of "Matte >Kudasai. On the version performed live in Buenos Aires (BBoom - double >CD), Tony Levin is playing fretless bass, and Fripp uses a fretless >(?) guitar, whose sound reminds me of a sea-gull's voice (my humble >english lacks of a better word!). Quite microtonal.
>
>The bass lines (especially the one going up to the ninth on F#m) sound >quite non-12 et for me :)
>

That's not Fripp, that's Belew playing slide guitar.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
> Maximiliano G. Miranda Zanetti wrote:
>
> >I love much of KC's stuff. This messages made me remember
of "Matte
> >Kudasai. On the version performed live in Buenos Aires (BBoom -
double
> >CD), Tony Levin is playing fretless bass, and Fripp uses a
fretless
> >(?) guitar, whose sound reminds me of a sea-gull's voice (my
humble
> >english lacks of a better word!). Quite microtonal.
> >
> >The bass lines (especially the one going up to the ninth on F#m)
sound
> >quite non-12 et for me :)
> >
>
> That's not Fripp, that's Belew playing slide guitar.
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db

Hi Dave.
Ups! I keep wondering why I thought that was a fretless guitar.
Anyway, microtonal performance :P

So Fripp plays the arpegio guitar, and Belew is the one that makes
the gull screams, I guess.

Max

Maximiliano G. Miranda Zanetti wrote:

>Hi Dave.
>Ups! I keep wondering why I thought that was a fretless guitar. >Anyway, microtonal performance :P
>
>So Fripp plays the arpegio guitar, and Belew is the one that makes >the gull screams, I guess.
>
>Max
>
Yep. I know Belew had a fretless in the '80's but I don't remember
what he used it for.

One thing about fretless...I showed mine to a few guys that
I work with that are hot sh*t guitar players. They could play 12tet
very well in it!

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Belew plays some fretless on the album Beat, I believe (e.g., the tune Heartbeat).

A fretless commercially-made guitar that I've tried that I'd love to own is the Godin Glissentar (11 nylon strings, all doubled except for the lowest string).

- Dave

David Beardsley wrote:
> Yep. I know Belew had a fretless in the '80's but I don't remember
> what he used it for.
> > One thing about fretless...I showed mine to a few guys that
> I work with that are hot sh*t guitar players. They could play 12tet
> very well in it!
>

Kraig Grady made a good point that it can be much harder but more productive to commit to a fretting, because then those non-12 intervals ARE sort of 'etched in stone', and you're really forced to reckon with what they do, and how the relationships go on, (more or less?) intractably.

Before I got my fretting I did this thing, which starts with a DX-7 in a weird tuning, but the portamento or whatever I had turned on defeats the clarity of it. It's an attempt at a pan-poly-tonal mass that by mixing--adding and subtracting--could move around to different 'key' (?) areas. Only mildly successful, I guess...

http://www.mp3.com.au/track.asp?id=32370

It's me and Pat Mastelotto, probably about the time he had to start packing to go to work with KC.

Should probably be listened to while reading your favorite William S. Burroughs cut-up. [See DYLM (pt.1), which words are from The Ticket That Exploded]

David Beardsley <db@biink.com> wrote:

Maximiliano G. Miranda Zanetti wrote:

>Hi Dave.
>Ups! I keep wondering why I thought that was a fretless guitar.
>Anyway, microtonal performance :P
>
>So Fripp plays the arpegio guitar, and Belew is the one that makes
>the gull screams, I guess.
>
>Max
>
Yep. I know Belew had a fretless in the '80's but I don't remember
what he used it for.

One thing about fretless...I showed mine to a few guys that
I work with that are hot sh*t guitar players. They could play 12tet
very well in it!

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

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