Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning For P.G. on authenticity...

Hey Paul,

Man, something is whacked in your email on the list - I couldn't reply
to it with the web interface. Maybe Yahoo has indigestion...

Copy/pasted, you wrote:

> Authenticity is everything -- what is a piece of art if no(t)
> authentic?

Well, that's cute, but I'd apply that to people recreating an earlier
piece, or a piece literally tied to a tradition or style. In the
context of this list, which includes both backward- *and*
forward-looking perspectives, I would also include "Originality is
everything" - or at the very least, "Originality carries at least as
much weight as anyone else's particular benchmark". Or something.

I just don't think you can pin, on a young person, the absolute and
rigorous demand that they do something the way it has always been
done. Nor that they be required to make "art".

(sidenote -- I also studied percussion in SoCal -- with another
Partch-guy, Todd Miller..... and I used to use Emil's instruments
quite often)

Hah, I know Todd! I occasionally see him when I sub with Pacific
Symphony up in Orange County, and I've known Emil since the 70's -
what a great musician, and he is *still* tearing it up! Few people
realize how instrumental (no pun intended) he was to getting some
great players for "Delusion of the Fury" back in 1969.

But I'm wandering...

Cheers,
Jon

🔗pgreenhaw@nypl.org

> Authenticity is everything -- what is a piece of art if no(t)
> authentic?

-Well, that's cute, but I'd apply that to people recreating an earlier
-piece, or a piece literally tied to a tradition or style. In the
-context of this list, which includes both backward- *and*
-forward-looking perspectives, I would also include "Originality is
-everything" - or at the very least, "Originality carries at least as
-much weight as anyone else's particular benchmark". Or something.

Jon, I was using the term "authenticity" in a more general sense -- as in
authentic to oneself and to the time -- I am a composer in new york city
in 2005..... what do I need to say? what materials and music language are
relevant for use? THIS kind of authenticity is what I was referring to.
Which brings us back to the MP3s on that webpage... Seriously, does a
fluffy, phoney, cliched piece like "knots and folds" really have value and
meaning to you guys?? It is honestly the best example of a derivative
piece of music that I could ever conceive. I guess I live in a different
world then, because I like my experiences a tad more profound and scary

-I just don't think you can pin, on a young person, the absolute and
-rigorous demand that they do something the way it has always been
-done. Nor that they be required to make "art".

I am in NO WAY saying that things need to be "the way the always have
been"!! Quite the contrary, it is the composer of "Knots and Folds" that
feels compelled to deal with 19th century gestures (distilled into
beautiful kitsch)

Paul

(you must know Jim Lorbeer, et al....)

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🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> In the
> context of this list, which includes both backward- *and*
> forward-looking perspectives, I would also include "Originality is
> everything" - or at the very least, "Originality carries at least as
> much weight as anyone else's particular benchmark". Or something.

I think the state of musical creation was extremely healthy in the
days when people didn't worry about originality at all. In any case,
excellence trumps originality.

Of course, originality is somewhat in the ear of the beholder. Is
neo-Gothic music derivative and backwards looking, or boldly original?

🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, pgreenhaw@n... wrote:

> Jon, I was using the term "authenticity" in a more general sense --
as in
> authentic to oneself and to the time -- I am a composer in new york
city
> in 2005..... what do I need to say? what materials and music
language are
> relevant for use? THIS kind of authenticity is what I was referring
to.

It seems to me this is more a recipe for lack of originality than the
reverse. If you must sound like a New York composer in 2005, it seems
as if that means there is a group of people you must sound like. Why
does that either help you sound like yourself, or to be original?

Incidentally, do you have a web page with some of your own music on it?

> I guess I live in a different
> world then, because I like my experiences a tad more profound and scary

Doesn't that rather limit your enjoyment of the classical repertorire?
Which Haydn symphonoes are scary, for instance, since presumably those
are the only ones you will like.

🔗pgreenhaw@nypl.org

__________________________________________

> I guess I live in a different
> world then, because I like my experiences a tad more profound and scary

-Doesn't that rather limit your enjoyment of the classical repertorire?
-Which Haydn symphonoes are scary, for instance, since presumably those
-are the only ones you will like.

I was using scary in a Goldberg Variation sense -- scary as it is so
profound -- not Berlioz or "Night on Bald Mountain" scary

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🔗Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, pgreenhaw@n... wrote:

> -Doesn't that rather limit your enjoyment of the classical repertorire?
> -Which Haydn symphonoes are scary, for instance, since presumably those
> -are the only ones you will like.
>
> I was using scary in a Goldberg Variation sense -- scary as it is so
> profound -- not Berlioz or "Night on Bald Mountain" scary

Ah. The London or Farewell symphonies are scary, then. Not the word I
would have chosen.

🔗monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

hi Jon and Paul, (and Jorge and Ringeau?)

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> (sidenote -- I also studied percussion in SoCal --
> with another Partch-guy, Todd Miller..... and I used to
> use Emil's instruments quite often)
>
> Hah, I know Todd! I occasionally see him when I sub
> with Pacific Symphony up in Orange County, and I've
> known Emil since the 70's - what a great musician, and
> he is *still* tearing it up! Few people realize how
> instrumental (no pun intended) he was to getting some
> great players for "Delusion of the Fury" back in 1969.
>
> But I'm wandering...

OK, by constantly referring to him only as "Emil",
i guess you guys are doing the equivalent of the
SoCal Microtonal Percussionists Club secret handshake.
i assume you must mean Emil Richards. ("Richard" or
"Richards"?) yes, i agree, he's fantastic.

Brink and/or Jonathan (Glasier) have a copy of one of
his old LPs at the Sonic Arts Gallery ... each piece
is a portrait of a gemstone ... it's called "Stones"
or something like that ... anyway, great stuff: weird
microtonal tunings and crazy compound meters. i really
love that sort of thing.

-monz

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

Monz,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@t...> wrote:
> OK, by constantly referring to him only as "Emil",

Well, it was just one email and a reply - besides, I included it for
Paul G, not really as something that I thought everyone would catch.

But you're right: Emil Richards, fabulous studio musician, great jazz
vibraphone player, pretty much the largest one-person collection of
percussion instruments from around the world, builder of microtonal
instruments, and one-time leader of the (now defunct) Microtonal Blues
Band.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Pete McRae <ambassadorbob@yahoo.com>

I'm beginning to think that "originality" is just something you take to the patent office, and then your marketing director.

"Excellence" is the illusion you invoke to demolish your "competition", should they become a "threat".

I just picked up Isaacoff's _Temperament_, and stumbled right to the part where he calls Partch a "thoroughly mediocre composer", in what I believe is a thoroughly childish stroke. Which same mediocrity is apparently true of Berlioz and Mussorgsky (?). Is Ashlee Simpson then more thoroughly mediocre than Partch, because she sets her standard at low mediocrity, or not?

And may I look forward, then, to someone "competent" of "excellent" (like Ravel or...), to come along and set my lackluster achievements aright?

Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM> wrote:

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" wrote:
> I think the state of musical creation was extremely healthy in the
> days when people didn't worry about originality at all. In any case,
> excellence trumps originality.

You've said this before, and your music encapsulates that particular
aesthetic.

Jon

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